Can chainsaws be more safe?

[Mike Hill]

31 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

This is all wrong. No one trains anyone to “use a saw as far away as you can” that would simply be idiotic. 
One look through the current NPTC schedule would tell you that the assessment candidate needs to be observed operating the saw with the correct stance/ thumbs round the handles/ no part of the body over the saw etc to achieve a pass, what they do at later at work is out of NPTC’s control, but not the employer.

The FCA approached FISA early this year with a proposal to allow candidates to be trained, then defer their assessment whilst being mentored at work, with a logbook to be then completed by the employer.
Cross cutting /snedding/ felling/etc and how many hours completed, when the employer deemed the candidate efficient and up to speed the assessment would be arranged.

I thought it was a great idea, especially in the Forestry sector, but FISA poo-pooed the idea.

How many years experiance do you have in Arboriculture? I have never looked once through any NPTC handbook, but have employed probably 20 products of UK " training". Most use a saw like they are either holding onto a pissed off Otter or defusing a bomb.

[5thelement]

Just now, Mike Hill said:

How many years experiance do you have in Arboriculture? I have never looked once through any NPTC handbook, but have employed probably 20 products of UK " training". Most use a saw like they are either holding onto a pissed off Otter or defusing a bomb.

26 years.

[5thelement]

4 hours ago, Steve Bullman said:

Things have certainly changed here. When I did my tickets all my assessors were in their 60's and had clearly been working in the woods most of their lives. Saddly they are all dead now. Im comparison to today where I have heard first hand of someone completing a 2 year college course and then staying on at the college at the end of their course as a trainer. Thats not a one off story either.

I have also heard of this happening on more than one occasion. How can someone with zero industry experience teach others in how to do the job?

I never encourage anyone to do their tickets at a college, unless they are doing it as part of a longer term course such as RFS or Bsc.

Colleges instructors can often be internally trained and moderated, so the quality is dire, the nearest College to me in Sussex is an absolute embarrassment.

 

[Mike Hill]

I think the biggest problem is the money that can be made from running these courses. I had a mate quit as a trainer after he told his boss half the people on the course would never make the grade as staff. 

 

Producing good staff was a distant second to putting bums on seats.

 

I cant predict the utility of a potential applicant judging by their quals. That means to me their quals are useless.

[Stubby]

I started out on saws with no chain brake and I had no tickets . I used common sense . I used the saw close to me to minimize the strain on my back and rested it on the stick as you move along snedding .  In later life I went and got some tickets and when the assessor saw

 me push cutting a log  he said how taught you that ?  I said I have always done it where appropriate . He said its ok but you had your leg inline with the bar . Ok sorry I said . He passed me anyway . The others on the course  were pretty much green . I had to help a girl who was struggling so I did some stuff for her so he could pass her . He did acknowledge that I kinda knew what I was doing compared to the others .  

Edited October 31, 2021 by Stubby

[oldwoodcutter]

I had a temporary young fellow join the gang a few weeks ago, he’d recently completed a few cs courses which he showed me on his phone.
I drove over to the job site and as I was casting an eye over proceedings ,he was bucking up and seemed to me to be standing in an unnatural position.
I tapped him on the back and suggested that straddling directly behind a saw with the bar in direct line with your head is a bad idea, even allowing for him, or the inertia actuating the brake, he said that no one had ever told him about that before on any course he’d attended.

[spudulike]

2 hours ago, adw said:

Stickers are just one item, after that comment I rest my case about lack of maintenance..

And I second this. How many actually blow all that chip out of the side cover of their MS200/201/150s? How many have stripped it down and not pushed that inner cover fully home as it should? How many notice the brake guard flapping around in the breeze because the flat spring has failed. How many operate a top handle without a chain catcher? 

I see many machines in from many operators of different sizes. I mentioned getting in two MS260s from different operators, both not running but both with failed chain brake springs which were not mentioned at hand over. 

I regularly see the MS201s in and the chain brakes don't operate on the very edge of the guard nearest the oil cap. This part of the guard not actuating the brake is the first sign of the chain brake having wear in its components or being stuffed full of chip - the actuation sound is also a clear indicator on the latter as a new unit is "crisp" and rings, a bunged one is much duller in note. 

As I mentioned earlier, in commercial manufacturing, machines have Health Checks, Preventative Maintenance and regular servicing. It would seem from what I see, chainsaws are maintained at the point of failure i.e. not running, impact damage or at the point it is totally unusable! 

I am not looking for work but have been around long enough to know the dangers of bleeding out and say that those elements mentioned above get serviced whether a customer asks for it or not!!

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

the assessor saw

 me push cutting a log  he said how taught you that ?  I said I have always done it where appropriate . He said its ok but you had your leg inline with the bar .

I'll cross cut with a pushing chain where it needs it too.

 

I was pulled up on my assessment  30 years ago now, for running up a whorl on the far side with a pushing chain, flipping the saw onto its side  with my thumb on the trigger for the top branch and then bringing it down with a pulling chain for the branch on my side. That last bit meant the saw was coming toward me. The way I sned a conifer means that this method alternates with the approved method every other whorl.

[Rich Rule]

3 hours ago, adw said:

Stickers are just one item, after that comment I rest my case about lack of maintenance..

How do you come to the conclusion from that comment and relate it to lack of maintenance?

 

Please explain or expand on what you mean.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[adw]

You obviously have contempt for mandatory safety features on the saw from your remark, so I guess that goes for all the safety features on the saw, manufacturers and trainers can only do so much, if operators choose to ignore advice there is no more we can do.