Getting rid of ivy!!

[Doug Tait]

4 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

Please explain yourself 

You asked openly for people to report about Ivy in relation to storm work, to gather data. I did that, but your response gave the impression that it's the wrong kind of data.

 

I might be wrong but I think you've noticed Ivy on trees recently and concluded it's a problem, now you want to gather evidence to support your decision. Your mind is closed to data that doesn't conform.

[htb]

12 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

What evergreens are you talking about?

Probably the one that blocked the suez canal, that was caused by a gust of wind.

[rapalaman]

Got to add that on a pretty hairy round trip today with the truck full of chip to deliver, getting almost blown over the white lines, that 90% of the trees lying in the road or resting on power lines were covered in ivy. Many were dead elms admittedly, but most of the others were field maples and conifers. Stopped to clear one with another fella that had a saw with him - no ivy on then field maple- was about 40cm dbh 

[CambridgeJC]

Lets go back to basics. Most high winds occur during winter. Certainly in temporate regions. And the trees which populate extreme windy regions are guess what?  Pine forests. Wow! And these are guess what?  Evergreens. Wow! So what did they do to evolve to cope?  Guess what?  Roots that held them fast and strong in the face of high winds!  Wow!  Clever little devils these pine trees!  And many also developed spiral fibrous trunk growth structures. Wow! This creates strength against wind stress and leverage. Clever stuff eh?  Wow!  And not content with that under the years of exposure to prevailing winds they even develop growth tendency to lean away from the wind above ground. Pretty basic stuff here. But they counterbalance the consistent  strain by root structures on the opposite side to anchor themselves firmly into the ground against the anticipated wind stress. Not a lot of people know that. (Michael Caine may have said that🤣).  But in warmer climes broadleaved trees grow in forests and cultivated in isolation and are deciduous in the main. They have evolved with shallower root systems compatible with luxurious plant growth soils and increasing rainfall and ultimately rainforest conditions. So when the wind blows their shallower root structures are less able to cope. Some are able to evolve genetically and phenotypically to protect others at the borders of a forest in windy areas (like Dartmoor for example). Just look at the isolated copses there. Always shaped with low growth on windwards edge and rising away to leeward. Same for individual trees there. Clever little souls. Much to be learned from trees. 
But ivy changes things. As they have found to their cost in the USA. Where it is declared an invasive species. 
It tends not to grow on evergreen pines which shield them from light source and have a wonderful time when deciduous trees lose their leaves. Smart eh?
It grows exactly the same here in the UK when left to its own devices. No difference at all. But we choose to call it non-invasive. Because it was not introduced from abroad!!! Whose clever idea was that??? Hmmm!
Now lets get serious. 
How do we want our woodlands and hedgerows to develop in future? Covered with evergreen ivy growth to the detriment of other species? Torn down any time the wind blows hard? 
If so then carry on as we are. Do nothing. 
I have images of Hedera helix growing as juvenile form up quite high with no sign of development into mature reproductive growth. And loads of ivy covered tree trunks not acting as sails. 
The chance we have just now is getting data on WHETHER OR NOT ivy is a threat to our trees and hedgerows. 
So…please help collect data on the proportion of downed deciduous trees that are loaded up OR NOT with ivy growth which has contributed to the fall in this week’s high winds. That will provide useful information and allow a mature and informed discussion on the subject. 
OK? Just forget the science and other distractions. Focus on understanding the question and collecting some basic data. Unscientific this may be but at least its a start. 
Or maybe I’m just unhinged 😂😂😂

[CambridgeJC]

2 hours ago, htb said:

Probably the one that blocked the suez canal, that was caused by a gust of wind.

I love this. Some good old British humour. Well done 👍 

[CambridgeJC]

2 hours ago, Doug Tait said:

You asked openly for people to report about Ivy in relation to storm work, to gather data. I did that, but your response gave the impression that it's the wrong kind of data.

 

I might be wrong but I think you've noticed Ivy on trees recently and concluded it's a problem, now you want to gather evidence to support your decision. Your mind is closed to data that doesn't conform.

You get me wrong here. I look for data to either support or to negate the proposal that ivy is an increasing threat to our uk woodlands and hedgerows. My personal feeling is that it possibly could be and if it is then it should be evaluated and control measures adopted. Thanks for prompting me to clarify this. 

[difflock]

"Follow the money"

Is my, perhaps a trifle cynical, analysis of this ivy fixation.

[Mick Dempsey]

Follow the bored bloke making up scenarios about something he has almost no knowledge of.

[Mick Dempsey]

7 hours ago, CambridgeJC said:

Now lets get serious. 
How do we want our woodlands and hedgerows to develop in future? Covered with evergreen ivy growth to the detriment of other species? Torn down any time the wind blows hard? 
If so then carry on as we are. Do nothing. 
 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Mick Dempsey

[Stubby]

2 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

 

Love to have seen before the edit 😄