Groundie/climber current rates?

[lux]

If it makes any of you feel better I'm trying to get onto courses for my climbing tickets at the moment and every training provider you ring is fully booked for months in advance, it seems everyone out of work due to Covid has decided now is the time to realise an ambition to become a tree surgeon so there's likely to be lots of fresh blood bolstering the ranks this year I'd say.
 
I'm planning on getting all my own kit and offering my services to all the local firms and one/two man bands I know, but unsure how to price a days labour given I'm going to be slow and green starting out climbing. I've been using a ground saw for years though and have other skills to bring to the table (driving, towing, machines and mechanics) so I'm hovering around the £90 a day mark at the moment which looks almost too cheap given some of the comments here. 

Way too cheap. That’s less than wages money and you are proposing to provide your own kit.
What amount of kit are you aiming at providing. ?

[eggsarascal]

3 hours ago, David Cropper said:

Christ Alive, Eggs! Are you in a state of Zen? Very wise comment. You're not wandering around Suffolk in your saffron robes again, are you?

Keep it, Mr Cropper.

[David Cropper]

3 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Keep it, Mr Cropper.

Oh, very nice, and that from a man in your State of Grace. Charming!

[Darkslider]

4 hours ago, lux said:

Way too cheap. That’s less than wages money and you are proposing to provide your own kit.
What amount of kit are you aiming at providing. ?

Just saws and climbing PPE initially, but sounds like I'm still selling myself short somewhat at that.

[Paddy1000111]

6 minutes ago, Darkslider said:

Just saws and climbing PPE initially, but sounds like I'm still selling myself short somewhat at that.

Maybe just do a few days for free for a random company and see how it goes? If you live up to their expectations in speed etc then you're away. I've been on jobs before with climbers who have charged good money, turned up with blunt saws, left massive stubs in the tree so rigging is a pain in the ass and you spend the whole time on the ground waiting for them to stop f'ing about after you've cleared away the branch they just dropped. I guess that kind of blew the image of super fast Spiderman climbers out the window. It would at least give you a couple of days of experience so you have a good idea of what you're doing. Being a groundie isn't rocket surgery and being a climber on small jobs isn't brain science either!

[lux]

Just saws and climbing PPE initially, but sounds like I'm still selling myself short somewhat at that.

Definitely are. You are basically on the verge of bonafide sub contractor there. Providing Ppe , climbing kit etc, they are going to be paying you grunt money without any overheads.
All the kit wear and tear will be yours to sort, if your turning up with climbing gear most firms will want an up to date loler ticket seen etc. Again your cost.
They won’t be covering your sick/ holiday blah blah.

Best off doing some work with the companies kit gaining experience before you can charge yourself out fairly at a rate where you are making profit not just your wage.

[emoji106]

[skyhuck]

7 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It’s a catchy phrase that gets trotted out from time to time and there’s some merit in it.

 But, If you’re selling widgets that you bought for a quid and sold for £1.01 and you sell  200 a week then it’s true, but if you sell 2 million then it’s a different story.

Tree work isn’t a goods supply business, fixed costs are usually quite low in comparison to a pub for instance.

 

So if you’re turning a lot of money over in this business it’s highly likely that you’ll cover your fixed costs fairly early on in the week/month/year

 

Large turnover can mean loans to buy machinery, which will improve productivity and can be written off after a period of time then sold privately when they still have a high value.

Pure profit is taxable, whereas capital assets are tax deductible.

 

There’s more than one way to approach running a business is all I’m saying.

 

I am no expert of course, not many of us are, not looking to argue, just encourage debate.

Not sure I agree, IME, the thing that tends to rise with turnover is labour costs. As you take on more work you need more bodies to do the work. There are only so many hours in a day, you can't do everything yourself. So you take on more staff to deal with  with the extra work, then works slows a little, so you sharpen your pencil to keep the work coming in and before you know it you have the headache of looking at more work, organising said work, going round sorting out the mess the staff make, get calls telling you what you've asked them to do can't be done. So you end up going yourself and doing the supposedly impossible. 

 

It's very easy to find you're working harder, making less and not enjoying your work.

 

In my experience you're better off staying small, reduce turnover and maximising profits.

[Mick Dempsey]

I guess it depends on how you interpret the word ‘small’

 

I am not necessarily talking about multiple gangs, I mean being really well equipped to rattle out jobs fast will increase turnover, Lorries with grabs, spider mewps, that sort of thing.

 

I take your point though.

[oldwoodcutter]

With all the redundancies this last 10 months from the service and hospitality sectors, many forced into a change of scenery, have/ are booked in on climbing courses which I’m told , to use a modern expression, are rammed ,and fully booked up well into 2021.
So come the summer you won’t be able to move in your own back street for recently modified Rangers and transit trucks , with enthusiastic and cheap “tree surgeons “ at the wheel doing all the local work for half your rate.
Yes, I know half will be here today and gone tomorrow , but I wouldn’t recommend jacking up your day rates until after the dust storm has settled.

[Paddy1000111]

On 22/02/2021 at 17:00, oldwoodcutter said:

With all the redundancies this last 10 months from the service and hospitality sectors, many forced into a change of scenery, have/ are booked in on climbing courses which I’m told , to use a modern expression, are rammed ,and fully booked up well into 2021.
So come the summer you won’t be able to move in your own back street for recently modified Rangers and transit trucks , with enthusiastic and cheap “tree surgeons “ at the wheel doing all the local work for half your rate.
Yes, I know half will be here today and gone tomorrow , but I wouldn’t recommend jacking up your day rates until after the dust storm has settled.

Be interesting to see how that works out. I can imagine a lot of fresh new guys but unsure about all the new companies knowing how much financial investment there is in kit and training. Not being elitist or something here but I would be surprised if someone who's been made redundant from a lower income job could afford the set up costs.

 

I wonder if it will be a delayed reaction, new blood this year, new companies in 3 years 🤨