Poll on two rope technique.

[aspenarb]

10 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

So I got on with it and expensive mistakes were made.

 

 

 

I hope a groundie wearing a chog for a hat wasn't one of them Mick

 

Bob

[Mick Dempsey]

9 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

 

I hope a groundie wearing a chog for a hat wasn't one of them Mick

 

Bob

No, no personal injuries on that job, I got sacked after a few months anyway.

 

It was a very familiar story though at that time (mid 90s) undertrained guys out of their depth on LA contracts.

I have every reason to believe it’s the same now.

 

I remember you once said it takes you three years from complete beginner to capable climber before you’ll let a guy go out in your van, with your companies name on, unsupervised to do work in your name.

 

Many others aren’t so scrupulous.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Mick Dempsey

[aspenarb]

2 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

No, no personal injuries on that job, I got sacked after a few months anyway.

 

It was a very familiar story though at that time (mid 90s) undertrained guys out of their depth on LA contracts.

I have every reason to believe it’s the same now.

 

I remember you once said it takes you three years from complete beginner to capable climber before you’ll let a guy go out in your van, with your companies name on, unsupervised to do work in your name.

 

Many others aren’t so scrupulous.

 

 

 

Urine extraction aside for a moment ( I only said a moment )it's a rather worrying situation Mick when many years of experience and competence account for nothing. I can half understand the changes but think they should apply to new trainees going forward that don't know any different and leave those comfy with SRT for the rest of their working life.

 

 

Bob

[Pete Mctree]

5 hours ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Like you said, the lines can take ~ 2.6tonnes. depend how strong the anchor is... If you have them clipped into the same ring/bridge you might be in for a rough ride but I'd rather have a rough ride and cut a limb free than get accelerated towards the ground by 1 tonne of wood and fall 50ft 

A 12 year old will tell you that a tonne in motion will generate significantly more energy than a  24kn climbing line can cope with, that’s without any deductions for a splice or a knot. So, If it’s attached to you your fecked at the best as your harness would probably squeeze you so hard that your innards would prolapse out of the nearest orifice prior to something breaking.
Your limited experience has just got you hurt, so at this point you cease to be worth listening too on this subject and hopefully no one else will either!

[Stubby]

12 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

 

Urine extraction aside for a moment ( I only said a moment )it's a rather worrying situation Mick when many years of experience and competence account for nothing. I can half understand the changes but think they should apply to new trainees going forward that don't know any different and leave those comfy with SRT for the rest of their working life.

 

 

Bob

Bit like Grandad rights for towing . 👍

[Dbikeguy]

A 12 year old will tell you that a tonne in motion will generate significantly more energy than a  24kn climbing line can cope with, that’s without any deductions for a splice or a knot. So, If it’s attached to you your fecked at the best as your harness would probably squeeze you so hard that your innards would prolapse out of the nearest orifice prior to something breaking.
Your limited experience has just got you hurt, so at this point you cease to be worth listening too on this subject and hopefully no one else will either!

Not to mention if it falls the opposite way to where you are tied in with a lanyard as you were cutting, it will slam you into the trunk or launch you up the tree as the limb you removed falls away and the rope gets caught over decent limb potentially pinning you until the rope/harness/you snaps

[Paddy1000111]

19 minutes ago, Pete Mctree said:

A 12 year old will tell you that a tonne in motion will generate significantly more energy than a  24kn climbing line can cope with, that’s without any deductions for a splice or a knot. So, If it’s attached to you your fecked at the best as your harness would probably squeeze you so hard that your innards would prolapse out of the nearest orifice prior to something breaking.
Your limited experience has just got you hurt, so at this point you cease to be worth listening too on this subject and hopefully no one else will either!

Okay so anchor in tree, rope from that anchor onto the ring on your rope bridge on your harness, then from the same ring down another rope onto a piece of wood that was your original anchor. How is that going to impart any loading or crushing force onto your harness. If we're on about cutting off the anchor and all the force being taken up by your positional strop on your hip d's then yea, I agree, nice way to get an open book fracture.

 It's not about experience because no, I don't have any experience of cutting off the top of a tree with my anchor still attached to it and having one ton of wood hanging from my rope bridge. Like you say though, it might break something, it might not. All depends on how it falls and how far. 

 

The other choice in this is you have cut the top of the tree off that has your anchor in it and one tonne of wood drags you out the tree accelerating you for the 50ft fall before power-driving you into the ground. 

 

If in your experience of having one ton of wood hanging from your harness because you seem confident to bring up experience here- do tell me how the force on the ring is transposed into a crushing force on the harness?

 

Let me just make it clear here, I am on about the difference between you cutting the part of the tree with the anchor attached in single rope vs double rope. You're getting dragged out regardless. I would rather have a chance that I'm not power-drived into the ground. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Paddy1000111

[Rich Rule]

For a start your bridge would snap and/or the other line (secondary anchor).  A millisecond before that, your legs would slap together so hard your testicles would be like fried eggs.

 

 

Then you will fall.

[Pete Mctree]

If you are cutting Paddy, you will also have a lanyard & this is what will do the damage until it fails, subsequently loading your 2nd anchor, so again lack of experience.

 

Have you have ever rigged anything near that weight? The forces are unbelievably massive.

 

Like Matty, I’m out of here as it’s like listening to a Trump speech - the bestest most brilliant one ever too !

[Paddy1000111]

6 minutes ago, Pete Mctree said:

If you are cutting Paddy, you will also have a lanyard & this is what will do the damage until it fails, subsequently loading your 2nd anchor, so again lack of experience.

 

Have you have ever rigged anything near that weight? The forces are unbelievably massive.

 

Like Matty, I’m out of here as it’s like listening to a Trump speech - the bestest most brilliant one ever too !

I 100% agree about the lanyard like I said in the previous comment but that won't change between one rope or two. In saying that, if you have one rope and you're lanyard then you're already abiding by two rope anyway