Is biomass usage sustainable and as green as it is made out to be?

[Steve Bullman]

1 hour ago, AHPP said:

Everyone involved in this sort of thing should be put to death.

bit harsh mate 😃

[Paddy1000111]

3 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

bit harsh mate 😃

AHPP isn't Greta is it?! 

[headgroundsman]

The one thing that people seem to miss, IMHO, is that if wood, or any other fuel, is burnt for a process that is not needed, i.e. drying wood that could be dried over time in the air or dried is a solar kiln (poly tunnel). Then this is wasted heat and wasted CO2 not a "carbon neutral process".

 

[AHPP]

bit harsh mate [emoji2]

Not remotely. The politicians who invent these schemes and the crumb guzzling dolescum who take advantage of them have a gun in my face and a hand in my pocket.

 

[Big J]

Can biomass be sustainable, in principle? Yes.

 

Is biomass in the UK sustainable. Not even close.

 

We don't have anywhere near enough wood fuel in the UK to support the RHI grant funded boilers that are currently installed. As such we're reliant on imported (often from afar) timber. 

 

Then, due to the economics of storage, almost all wood chip is kiln dried, using the heat from burning kiln dried wood chip. The carbon cost is monstrous.

 

The grant funding (as others have alluded to) is grotesquely generous, and represents a massive effort at wealth distribution from those that don't have (the average energy customer/taxpayer) to those that do (the people that can afford to put £100k into a boiler to heat their stables/country house/kiln that's generally just a steel shed).

 

I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it myself if I was in that position, but the whole scheme is badly thought out and ripe for abuse. 

 

It is telling that in Scandinavia, wood fuel heating is increasingly being phased out in favour of air and ground source heat pumps. Finland and Sweden are both over 70% forested, with abundant, high quality fuel that is cheaper than here. And they still choose not to burn it, rather directing it into wood fibre/pulp type applications. 

 

Where biomass is (I feel) sustainable is small district heating systems that use air dried fuel to heat a few dozen (or more) houses. The timber is locally sourced, sustainably harvested, naturally dried and the carbon footprint is low. 

 

This is a world away from the CHP plant at Sandwich in Kent taking Euc. chip from New Zealand. 

[MattyF]

Can biomass be sustainable, in principle? Yes.
 
Is biomass in the UK sustainable. Not even close.
 
We don't have anywhere near enough wood fuel in the UK to support the RHI grant funded boilers that are currently installed. As such we're reliant on imported (often from afar) timber. 
 
Then, due to the economics of storage, almost all wood chip is kiln dried, using the heat from burning kiln dried wood chip. The carbon cost is monstrous.
 
The grant funding (as others have alluded to) is grotesquely generous, and represents a massive effort at wealth distribution from those that don't have (the average energy customer/taxpayer) to those that do (the people that can afford to put £100k into a boiler to heat their stables/country house/kiln that's generally just a steel shed).
 
I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it myself if I was in that position, but the whole scheme is badly thought out and ripe for abuse. 
 
It is telling that in Scandinavia, wood fuel heating is increasingly being phased out in favour of air and ground source heat pumps. Finland and Sweden are both over 70% forested, with abundant, high quality fuel that is cheaper than here. And they still choose not to burn it, rather directing it into wood fibre/pulp type applications. 
 
Where biomass is (I feel) sustainable is small district heating systems that use air dried fuel to heat a few dozen (or more) houses. The timber is locally sourced, sustainably harvested, naturally dried and the carbon footprint is low. 
 
This is a world away from the CHP plant at Sandwich in Kent taking Euc. chip from New Zealand. 

They are not quite there yet either though, a friend who had one installed on a new build as it was one of the conditions for planning was shocked at how much electricity those pumps burnt..

[Big J]

1 minute ago, MattyF said:

They are not quite there yet either though, a friend who had one installed on a new build as it was one of the conditions for planning was shocked at how much electricity those pumps burnt..

They are reliant on a well insulated house, and we're a little way behind the Scandinavians on that front. 

I believe that their electricity is a little cheaper than here too, which helps.

[MattyF]

Maybe cheap but how green is the electricity to power the pumps?

[Woodworks]

22 minutes ago, MattyF said:

They are not quite there yet either though, a friend who had one installed on a new build as it was one of the conditions for planning was shocked at how much electricity those pumps burnt..

Had a GSHP for 15 years now. Cheap to run and maintain IME. As J says they do need a well insulated house but a new build should be but something is clearly amiss if its costing a lot to run

[Woodworks]

13 minutes ago, MattyF said:

Maybe cheap but how green is the electricity to power the pumps?

It gets greener and greener each year as more a more wind and other renewables come on tap.