Non paying customer

[Con]

Dont know if anyone saw the lad in liverpool a few months ago demolishing a travel lodge. He was owed his wages. I think it was £600. 

He probably felt the same as a lot of us have done at some point. Think he got a suspended sentence.  (And lost his job, obvs).

A whip round on social media raised 10x his wage tho in a week. That show's the sympathy and just how many people have been messed around like this

[Inoff the Red]

On 19/04/2019 at 13:22, dig-dug-dan said:

Really? Will have to add that in! Although a dead of night removal is more amusing!

Without wishing to appear pedantic, to have an effective retention of title claim it is important to establish that the clause was incorporated into the contract. Merely putting the ROT clause on an invoice does not work because an invoice is a post contractual document (unless there is a history of trading in which case the clause on an invoice may be valid through course of dealing).

For one-off jobs or new customers include the ROT clause in any quote and order confirmation, that way it will be difficult for the customer to argue that it was not part of the contract. You also need to be careful about the wording of ROT clauses so best use something current from t'internet or incur the cost of getting a proper set of T&Cs from a solicitor. 

 

Depending on the materials you supply, the wording of the ROT clause can also be crucial. The most favoured clause is the so called "All monies" clause. This gives the right to recover any items you may have supplied if any monies are owing. Without this, it would be necessary to be able to identify any goods supplied to a specific unpaid invoice. For specialist jobs  identification of items subject to an o/s invoice may not be a problem.

 

The problem with ROT clauses comes when the work you have done is combined with work done by someone else or if your work is permanently attached to something. So an ROT claim for something bolted to another item would succeed because you can unbolt it. If it is welded onto something else then it would fail.

 

Other tactics:-

1. Send him an invoice for interest for the late payment of a debt plus £70 for admin.

2. Download a Statutory demand form from the Insolvency Service web site. Fill it in with details of your claim and then manually hand it to him or post it through his letterbox after office hours on a friday afternoon. The receipt of a document requiring action within 21 days to avoid the possibility of bankruptcy tends to focus the mind and ruin a weekend for them (this is particularly effective if someone bounces a cheque on you because it is difficult then for the debtor to dispute the debt.)  Without judgement the stat demand approach is an abuse of process but it can be an excellent psychological tool to concentrate the debtors mind.

 

 

[Mick Dempsey]

16 minutes ago, Inoff the Red said:

Without wishing to appear pedantic, to have an effective retention of title claim it is important to establish that the clause was incorporated into the contract. Merely putting the ROT clause on an invoice does not work because an invoice is a post contractual document (unless there is a history of trading in which case the clause on an invoice may be valid through course of dealing).

For one-off jobs or new customers include the ROT clause in any quote and order confirmation, that way it will be difficult for the customer to argue that it was not part of the contract. You also need to be careful about the wording of ROT clauses so best use something current from t'internet or incur the cost of getting a proper set of T&Cs from a solicitor. 

 

Depending on the materials you supply, the wording of the ROT clause can also be crucial. The most favoured clause is the so called "All monies" clause. This gives the right to recover any items you may have supplied if any monies are owing. Without this, it would be necessary to be able to identify any goods supplied to a specific unpaid invoice. For specialist jobs  identification of items subject to an o/s invoice may not be a problem.

 

The problem with ROT clauses comes when the work you have done is combined with work done by someone else or if your work is permanently attached to something. So an ROT claim for something bolted to another item would succeed because you can unbolt it. If it is welded onto something else then it would fail.

 

Other tactics:-

1. Send him an invoice for interest for the late payment of a debt plus £70 for admin.

2. Download a Statutory demand form from the Insolvency Service web site. Fill it in with details of your claim and then manually hand it to him or post it through his letterbox after office hours on a friday afternoon. The receipt of a document requiring action within 21 days to avoid the possibility of bankruptcy tends to focus the mind and ruin a weekend for them (this is particularly effective if someone bounces a cheque on you because it is difficult then for the debtor to dispute the debt.)  Without judgement the stat demand approach is an abuse of process but it can be an excellent psychological tool to concentrate the debtors mind.

 

 

Now there’s some good advice.

[Woodlover]

And at the other end of the scale...I have just heard of a neighbour farmer women paying more for a job than was quoted. Job was £10,000 but half way through the job the track or tracks came off the digger and it cost £700 to fix...So...The customer now has a final bill of £10,700...As unhappy as she is at the unfair increase she still wants to pay it and be done with it, her partner apparently has more sense and does not want to pay but it looks like she will win and pay as the stress is too much for her, been going on for a while since the job finished. WTF is going on in the world? too many piss takers.

In this scenario I would not want to pay the fuckers anything for taking the piss,I would certainly well drag it out and deduct a meal out to de-stress the misses from the 10G .

 

I hope you Forestboy1978 didn't add to the invoice like these muppets above.

 

And also on the subject of people who don't pay...Sometimes patience can pay off as a few years ago I was owed a few grand from a new client and I was ready to rip out work and even cause damage as to prove a point but at the time I just did not have the time or energy due to being so busy....Anyway the money eventually came with an apology , and then loads of work for years after...Could not believe that I nearly through away such an in the end good customer. And of course the very next job I got from him I added 10%ish just because of the stress caused by his behaviour before.

[Woodlover]

If someone owes you money and refuses to pay, I have found this info useful ,

Do not under any circumstances spray cheap white spirit on a Tarmac driveway as it will destroy it and potentially cost thousands to fix depending on size. Also it is illegal without the owners permission . Even sprayed in fairy liquid bottles or water guns from the road side, its illegal so don't do it.

Do not under any circumstances put acid on a car or van as it will write it off and get you arrested if you get caught, even though I imagine its as silent as any possible way to destroy a vehcle ,its still not good to mess with acid, proper PPE is essential.

Also... Never fill water balloons with paint , where ever they land they will never leave a nice finish ...and they make a right mess.

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Woodlover

[gary112]

Kick the door in and say your not leaving till you got the money i reckon then when you got the money,name and shame so some other poor sod dont get caught

[Con]

I wouldn't consider the acid option in this climate, baring in mind what some people do with it. If caught with it police and authorities would take a dim view. 

[AHPP]

 
2. Download a Statutory demand form from the Insolvency Service web site. Fill it in with details of your claim and then manually hand it to him or post it through his letterbox after office hours on a friday afternoon. The receipt of a document requiring action within 21 days to avoid the possibility of bankruptcy tends to focus the mind and ruin a weekend for them (this is particularly effective if someone bounces a cheque on you because it is difficult then for the debtor to dispute the debt.)  Without judgement the stat demand approach is an abuse of process but it can be an excellent psychological tool to concentrate the debtors mind.
 
 

Can you talk us through what a statutory demand is and when they should be used (before/after litigation) please. I think I’ve worked it out but you explain things pretty well.

[Tommy_B]

Some absolute Rambo style whoppers on here isn't there? 

 

Forestboy, have they paid yet mate?

[forestboy1978]

On 24/04/2019 at 19:04, Woodlover said:

If someone owes you money and refuses to pay, I have found this info useful ,

Do not under any circumstances spray cheap white spirit on a Tarmac driveway as it will destroy it and potentially cost thousands to fix depending on size. Also it is illegal without the owners permission . Even sprayed in fairy liquid bottles or water guns from the road side, its illegal so don't do it.

Do not under any circumstances put acid on a car or van as it will write it off and get you arrested if you get caught, even though I imagine its as silent as any possible way to destroy a vehcle ,its still not good to mess with acid, proper PPE is essential.

Also... Never fill water balloons with paint , where ever they land they will never leave a nice finish ...and they make a right mess.

 

Calm down guys they paid. 

 

And I've only ever added to an invoice twice in my life. Both times the matter was discussed with customer before work recommenced as considerable extra unforeseen work was required.