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Vat registered companies.... how do you stay competitive

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4 hours ago, benedmonds said:

And comercial clients you can  charge 20 percent more then non vat reg firms. 

I’m not sure on your thinking here when I price a job I quote the price I need on it or want for doing it plus vat which never comes into the equation as it’s not mine technically (the vat).wether a client or firm I quoting for us vat registered or not is irrelevant.

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A theoretical question only, but something that occured to me a while ago...

 

You are taking a tree down for Mrs Bloggs. She wants the logs left on site, cut up. You value the job at £500, so to add VAT to it takes you up to £600. 

 

New Start Tree Surgery from down the road will do it for £500 all in as he's not VAT reg.

 

Would you be within your rights to cut the tree down for free, and then sell Mrs Bloggs the pile of logs on her lawn for £500, plus 5% VAT bringing the total to £525? The cutting of the tree would be done to obtain the product, which you are then as a good businessman selling to the nearest customer...

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On 22/08/2018 at 18:53, Inoff the Red said:

Opt to submit your returns on a cash basis. That way, you only account for vat on sales where the customer has paid. Of course, you can only claim vat on your purchases when they are paid also but it avoids the problem of having to pay vat on sales where you have not yet collected the cash from the customer.

Dont think Sage software will allow this.   Dont forget that the new making tax digital scheme coming in (next year ?) initially for corporation tax  requires HMRC compatible software.   My Sage 50 because its no longer supported by Sage ( 6 years old ) is now no longer acceptable so I have to upgrade.  

 

A

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12 minutes ago, jrose said:

A theoretical question only, but something that occured to me a while ago...

 

You are taking a tree down for Mrs Bloggs. She wants the logs left on site, cut up. You value the job at £500, so to add VAT to it takes you up to £600. 

 

New Start Tree Surgery from down the road will do it for £500 all in as he's not VAT reg.

 

Would you be within your rights to cut the tree down for free, and then sell Mrs Bloggs the pile of logs on her lawn for £500, plus 5% VAT bringing the total to £525? The cutting of the tree would be done to obtain the product, which you are then as a good businessman selling to the nearest customer...

I think that VAT man might have something to say about that. I don’t know what, but not only do they want blood out of a stone , they want a full measure of it:D 

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47 minutes ago, jrose said:

A theoretical question only, but something that occured to me a while ago...

 

You are taking a tree down for Mrs Bloggs. She wants the logs left on site, cut up. You value the job at £500, so to add VAT to it takes you up to £600. 

 

New Start Tree Surgery from down the road will do it for £500 all in as he's not VAT reg.

 

Would you be within your rights to cut the tree down for free, and then sell Mrs Bloggs the pile of logs on her lawn for £500, plus 5% VAT bringing the total to £525? The cutting of the tree would be done to obtain the product, which you are then as a good businessman selling to the nearest customer...

Cant see any problem with that, good thinking.

 

A

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2 hours ago, Gary Prentice said:

I don’t know what....

I f*cking do!  

 

The first tier tribunal didn't wholly agree with Hector though and bent him over for me.

 

It's just a shame the judge wouldn't allow my higher tier tribunal appeal so that I could go to full elbow length for the final insertion!!  

 

I think you could (if you were sufficiently stubborn, determined and with enough free time to take on the Tribunal process if required) argue a case that that was your business model - there was a company in Plymouth doing pretty much that "Trees for Free."  They'd take down your tree (if they wanted to), leave all the shite and mess, take only the timber from which value could be derived.  That was their model and I used that example to (successfully) argue that Hector was talking out of his 'Arris.

 

Maybe it "could" be done, but would it be worth the nause is another question....   

 

 

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3 hours ago, jrose said:

A theoretical question only, but something that occured to me a while ago...

 

You are taking a tree down for Mrs Bloggs. She wants the logs left on site, cut up. You value the job at £500, so to add VAT to it takes you up to £600. 

 

New Start Tree Surgery from down the road will do it for £500 all in as he's not VAT reg.

 

Would you be within your rights to cut the tree down for free, and then sell Mrs Bloggs the pile of logs on her lawn for £500, plus 5% VAT bringing the total to £525? The cutting of the tree would be done to obtain the product, which you are then as a good businessman selling to the nearest customer...

What a good idea!

 

Would you be within your rights, doubtful.  Can't see it being a problem though unless someone stitched you up

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23 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

I think you could (if you were sufficiently stubborn, determined and with enough free time to take on the Tribunal process if required) argue a case that that was your business model - there was a company in Plymouth doing pretty much that "Trees for Free."  They'd take down your tree (if they wanted to), leave all the shite and mess, take only the timber from which value could be derived.

Used to be the widespread model, and still may be, of timber merchants - felling the tree and extracting the sticks for the timber - so there is a sort of precedence 

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16 hours ago, aspenarb said:

You dont  have to be the whole 20% dearer just because you are vat registered  , in reality being vat registered is going to drop your overheads slightly because you will be claiming  back on quite a large portion of your out goings. You would probably not be out of pocket if you only upped your prices by 10-15% and I doubt if you clients would even notice that.

 

Bob

Cheers Bob. That's worth thinking about and to be honest I haven't put my prices up in a few years so the increase would cover that. 

 

Like I say I don't have a problem with the hassle involved with vat registration just the thought of loosing work due to not being on a level playing field on the domestic side. 

 

As I'm pretty much a service only business there aren't many materials involved so I'm no better off there either. I did concider doing more fencing as it's part and parcel of ripping out old boundaries. Least this way I would gain a bit on the fencing materials. 

 

Jim

 

 

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1 minute ago, chopper brown said:

Cheers Bob. That's worth thinking about and to be honest I haven't put my prices up in a few years so the increase would cover that. 

 

Like I say I don't have a problem with the hassle involved with vat registration just the thought of loosing work due to not being on a level playing field on the domestic side. 

 

As I'm pretty much a service only business there aren't many materials involved so I'm no better off there either. I did concider doing more fencing as it's part and parcel of ripping out old boundaries. Least this way I would gain a bit on the fencing materials. 

 

Jim

 

 

You''ll be surprised how much fuel bills add up, as well as sundries.  To put it into perspective, every time you walk out of the garage with your fuel receipt you are basically holding a £10 note in your hand

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