Paul Jenks

Ah. You mean one of those big black rubber things. I thought they were for fencing.(Unless you mean a rubber mallet). Anyone using one of those big black rubber things to bed slabs could do with getting the levels of the sub-base better to begin with. Still think it's codswallop.

Did the climber have to spike up the other 3 trees to put the rigging systems in and then remove them? Interesting and certainly less physical stress for the climber doing it in large lumps like that. I'd rather use a 2 rope system and dismantle in smaller pieces where the sections move away directly they've been cut, but still under control.

Interesting play on words. Sounds like codswallop to me. Why would you need a maul for a patio?

There is no such thing as a good heavy reduction on a birch. If they really want you to butcher it make sure they know it'll look like crap however talented you are and it'll hasten the decline of the tree as well as introducing future management implications as far as the regenration growth and decay at the cut sites.

That made me chuckle. Thank-you TCD

I believe there is quite a bit of info on the RHS website.

I'm there either Monday or Tuesday. Haven't had a look at the seminars yet to see which ones interest me. Main reason for going is a meeting with NOS about our KPI system.

I think what you're after is a revelatory theory that actually changes the way we think. An easier example from physics might be E=MC2. Newtons theories actually changed the way people thought. Or Galileo suggesting that the Earth circled the Sun. An equivalent in forestry might be that trees do actually speak. CODIT is about the only one I can bring to mind at this time of day and without a great deal of either caffiene or alcohol induced thought.

I have climbed a few trees where they didn't move right. Often they were dead and it was obvious. You do get a feel for really dodgy trees. (For any HSE reps any views expressed on here about climbing dead,dying or dangerous trees are not the views of the company and are definatly all past tense, never to be repeated ever again, honest). Sometimes live ones wobble a bit and further investigation shows something nasty lurking in a buttress. I'll assume from your name you've climbed a bit. I trust my judgement. Trust yours.

Nicely put:thumbup1:

Gaining accreditation isn't just about helping get contracts. Phil summed it up. Take a look at any PQQ and you'll discover what is involved. For my money I'd still start with the AA. They have a holistic approach that helps get the mindset right for the systems you'll need to progress. Most commercials, LA's and housing associations know and respect the AA marque and many require it. That said the AA has a way to go before they overtake the Automobile Association and Alcoholics Anonymous in the public subconciousness. Be aware that even if the ticket price is <£500 it'll cost you a large time investment and more £££s to ensure your yard, office, machinary, equipment, vehicles and systems are up to standard. Generally I guess you get what you pay for as with lots of things in life. Go for a cheap accreditation, (not just in £££ but in time as well), and it probably won't deliver. AAAC, CHAS, EXOR, IIP, ISO are about cultural changes in the organisation and management systems the prove resilience. IMO.

There is, I think, an NPTC module for windblown trees. I was lucky enough to learn on the real deal back in '87. Slash and death cuts doesn't even come close. The forces involved are enormous and however you do it you need to take a good look at how the tree fell and where the pressures are. Look at how stable the tree is when you start the dismantle stay very alert to movement at all times. If you start to sned out with the root plate still on watch out for it standing upright quite quickly. With the root plate cut off the tree is more prone to roll. On, it may stand up. Once you have cut off the root plate don't let anyone walk under or behind it as they can sit back down suddenly.

I liked that. It even got a small chuckle from my wife as I told it.

Sounds like The Status Quo tour back in '84:thumbup1:. Still, you've got more hair than Francis, Paul.

I reckon he was looking for chinese hand job but google chrome kicked in and found this first.

If you are looking at buying your own trousers, stick with the stihl HiFlex and get yourself a couple of pairs of good reflective over trousers. If you're working in Scandinavia heat won't be such an issue in the winter. The cheaper overtrousers will take most of the wear and tear. The chainsaw trousers will last much longer. The principle reason for wearing hi-viz is that you need to be seen. 10 washes will see the effectiveness diminish considerably, and unless you're a dirty bastard, that means about 10 weeks. Much better to chuck a £10 pair of over trousers.

What he said

The more trees one does the higher the probability of an error. That's not to say that an error is inevitable. Some people never make mistakes just as some men never masturbate. As someone said earlier, it's not so much that a mistake has been made, it's how it is dealt with. We've had a few, all blessedly small, for private, commercial and public body. It happens. Fessing up and asking what they need to rectify the situation is the best policy. Then attempt to initiate protocols to prevent recurrence. Most of the balls-ups we've had are ultimately my fault, usually through lack of communication, so I have to apologise to the staff as well as the client. Usually I manage to retain both and the relationship is stronger for it.

By all means speak to a lawyer, they usually give you a bit of time for free. For heavens sake don't employ one. 99 times out of a 100 the only winner is the lawyer with their fees. The concept of courts awarding full costs as well as the original sum is fantasy. It doesn't happen. £125 is a cheap days training in the journey of life. As most of the others have said before. Be nice, firm and prepared to let it go.

I'd be more concerned with, a) What course? b) Whether the college has certificated for tree ident? If the college has certificated the person and he really is as awful at ident as appears the examiner and the college need to look at their systems.

You'll need to take a look at the BS5837:2005. See if someone you know has a copy. It's a bit pricey. From memory it's over £100. Usually, the existing foundations, slab, paving etc have to be lifted using handtools with an arboriculturalist present to effect correct pruning of exposed roots. Sometimes the LA doesn't like stuff to be moved when it's within the calculated RPA. You'll also have to consider the future growth potential of the trees and the shading. Pruning the tree to shoehorn a building in and the future pruning or management pruning to retain the size of trees close to a proposed building is not looked upon favourably. Read the document to get a feel for the BS, British Standard as opposed to B**l S**t. Then speak to the Tree Officer and see what his view is.

Hardtop has hit some of the nails on the head. In addition, all our limited yard space, for which we pay, is used for vehicles. We have about 10 sqm for logs, that's about 12'x12'. If we paid for a site to store wood for processing it would have to be accessible all year round and reasonably secure, especially for the processed log storage, (i.e.a barn), reasonably central,(i.e. close to Oxford) and allows fires to get rid of the bark and awful nail riddled lumps that one comes across from time to time. Of the waste we produce across all sectors, public, commercial and private about 30-35% is left for the client. A recent example of this would be a roadside job in a rural area for highways. We had a team of 4-6 men cutting back vegetation, using traffic lights, for 20 or so days. They were producing approximately 15-20 tonnes of chip and cord a day. The costs associated with bringing that volume of chip away from site makes it non-sensical. Diesel, wear and tear, men away from site, extra vehicles required, hazards of ingress and egress onto a roadside site. Also, spewing woodchip perpendicular to the road is safer than parallel. And as long as the chip is spread thinly to allow aerobic breakdown instead of anaerobic it's ecologically better too. Many private clients like to keep the wood resulting from arb operations and for several reasons. They might want the fire wood for them, a family member or a neighbour. We make it cheaper if they keep it, especially if it's in one lump and it's in a back garden. Why spend time cutting something up and mauling it out when you can leave it where it is? Get on to the next job. Finally, for now, most trees we fell are felled for a good reason. Often that reason is because they are conifers, poplars, willows or knackered. We give all our wood away because the people we give it to know that sometimes they get oak, ash, beech etc and other times they get conifers, poplars, willows or knackered. It's a symbiotic relationship that has served well enough.

I'm glad you think like that Skyhuck. It's the differences that make this forum interesting. The ease of scaleability of any business is a function of how simple it is to describe what is expected from each member of staff. That's one of the reasons why McDonalds is so successful. I've always liked a challenge, and you're right, a log business would be demonstrably easier to scale. However, I have been working on the scale modelling for the last 10 or so years and seriously for the last 2. It's complex and difficult and rewarding. I employ intelligent people, most of whom have a professional qualification of one sort or another, (not necessarily in tree work). It does mean that I can, usually, rely on them to carry out the tasks assigned to them without breaking too much and in a timely manner. It also means that I can access their thinking for ideas to make the company better. They get quite bored doing logs and I don't work well with people who don't understand what polysyllabic means let alone spell it. Company looks after staff. Staff look after clients. Clients look after company. Happy Days Ps. Thanks Steve, (assuming that was directed at me. If not, I'll just finish my herbal tea and go to bed)

Zoo was cool. Cotswold Wildlife Park. Great day out for the family. A stagnant business is one that is not growing or developing. Many people go into business thinking that if they run a business for a number of years they will have something they can sell at the end of their time. Be that 5,10, 20 or so years. This is generally only the case where the person who comes along with a suitable suitcase full of pound notes can see a reasonable ROI. (Return on Investment). Again, generally, for someone to invest a large amount of cash in a business they don't expect to work their nadgers off to get the ROI. This would be because anyone buying a business would expect there to be systems in place to make the revenue streams come in without too much work. I.E. marketing, CRM, SLA, contracts, work processes and a proven track record of delivering profits.(FYI it's why franchises work so well). Someone either self-employed or as a director with a small business or company that is reliant on their being there for the day-to-day running has a job not a legacy. Therefore anyone setting up or running a business they wish to sell should look to designing themselves out of the day to day running of a business such that anyone could step in and run it. A developing, therefore not stagnant, business is always increasing profits either by increasing market share(more customers) or increasing revenue(selling more to existing customers). So instead of trying to spread myself too thin by looking at doing logs, landscaping or fencing I've focussed on tree work and growth. Logs can be a sideline or a full time business or a distraction.

In response to the original thread. Sideline or stand alone business depends on your goal. If someone has the space to store and process wood into logs taking all the costs into consideration, including hauling wood back to the yard, then it may either contribute to the main businesses turnover/profit or turn a profit as a seperate business. From my perspective, (and this is just my perspective), I have worked for guys who see logs as a cash earner, part of their business or a pain in the arse. I see them as a distraction from the core business of tree surgery/arboriculture. We used to do a little landscaping and fencing. People asked us if we did it, so we did. That too was a distraction. It took my attention away from the core speciality of tree surgery. My staff didn't really like doing it either, but the excuse I used for a long while was, 'It keeps us in work'. The reality was that I should have focussed on getting more tree work. I keep a small amount of nice wood at the yard for my log burner and the guys take a bit for friends and family. I do about 6 loads a year for people as a thank-you for giving us leads or direct work. All our wood arisings, between 1000-2000 tonnes per year and chip, between 1500-3000 tonnes per year, we give away or get collected from site. That may sound alot but the costs of transport, man hours, fuel, storage etc, doesn't justify my time in trying to find a market for it. As for offering a professional service. This applies to every aspect of the business. Whether it's answering the phone, turning up on time, complaints proceedure, oh and tree work the experience of the client should be consistent. Woolworths died as a result of poor business leadership. They lost their way through the 70's and 80's and selling off their assets was a last ditched attempt to inject cash into the business with the hope that they could trade out. It failed. My final point, honest, is on business growth. Businesses either grow or die. If a business is to offer a consistent level of service that delivers an up to date professional service it has to grow. As a business matures it gains an increasing customer base. If they are to retain those customers by delivering the same level of service in the same timescale and for a broadly similar cost they have to employ more staff. When a business employs more staff there is a need to find more work and so the cycle continues. If this doesn't occur the business stagnates. (Sorry, I'll have to stop here. We're off to the zoo and I've run out of time. Family first.)