Paul Jenks

Odd question. Why specifically an arb based business? Funding streams are broadly similar to any other business. Much of the answer will come from knowing exactly what you're aiming for. An arb business might be a self-employed climber with a small amount of kit right through to a regional or national company. Who is starting it? Is it an addition to an existing business? Is it being started as a result of a contract? How much funding is required and for how long? I would imagine that most of the guys and girls on here have cobbled together what they could to get a start and then used whatever system of funding that works for them going forward. Overdrafts are virtually a thing of the past. (They are too expensive for the banks when you don't use them as they still have to hold capital to cover the value of the overdraft.) Bank loans can be very expensive for a start up, if indeed you do actually manage to convince the leaches to give you one. (Do I sound bitter.)

Try this just before going to bed. The tea, not Arbtalk

3 factors to consider. Firstly, Greece is the last line of defence for the EU with regards to its border with the middle east. Loose control of that border and where is Greece's incentive to prevent immigration. Secondly, as with the initial phase of this recession (i.e.the banks), everyone is exposed to everyone else at a sovereign level. The figures for exposure were in the business section of the telegraph yesterday. It's by no means certain, but if one economy fails there is a good chance that market pressure will cause others to follow suit. This will, in turn, increase the pressure on those economies that have been seen to be doing ok so far. Thirdly, Chinese and or Middle East money will probably eventually be brought in as most of their market is the EU. If the EU economies fail or hunker down and stop buying imports from China and oil from the Arabs, they face the prospect of stagnation. Their growth is fuelled by our consumerism. This leads to instability and the quasi governments that run them only like a very little of that.

My shogun is pretty good, except for the the bloodly parking sensors that peep all the time when reversing a trailer. It's got preselect gears too so if I want to hold on to a gear it's easy. With the miles I do I'd always go for an auto.

I think that type of training would be more than adequate. We recently had a day with an international group who do battle first aid. First aid doesn't really prepare you for a big, sloppy, leaking, gaping chainsaw cut but when Mac cut his arm the training the boys had for rescue and bleed control certainly helped the situation. First aid is first and foremost about getting help and keeping the casualty stable until the paramedics arrive.

Me too

Sat/Sun would be good as it would involve a lot more of the operatives, not just the owners. The idea is great as I know how valuable it is to share ideas, techniques, etc. Short seminars with Q&A sessions are good too. Yorkshire is a long way up, but we're a big(ish) island and Cirencester is a long way down for some. With enough planning we could make a w/e of it.

i mentioned that in a previous post. hope one day it will be acknowledged. didn't bother reading the long posts wear gloves for your silky, i'm a barber (since i was 15yrs) you dont get paid if you stick a stripe up somebodies head, just cut what needs cutting. chainsaws?? i'm confused, are you dropping, moving, swinging a running saw? surely with practice you could switch it off and waste 5mins, then you will have all your fingers and thumbs. as per CS31 - you are to wait until the saw has stopped running before you remove it from the tree. I'd suggest you do actually read the longer posts. This thread notwithstanding, pretty well most of the people prepared to write a long response to a thread have something valid to say. Generally, it's based on a deal of experience within the industry. There is rarely a long response without some value in it. The challenge is to be able to verbalise ones thoughts for everyone to understand the point one is attempting to portray. Picking the right form of words that says what you want to say without upsetting others is not always possible. I dare say hairdressing has its hazards too. Very few climbers switch off between cuts, that's what the chainbrake is for. The point about a CS course for silkys is well intentioned but the principles are broadly similar to a chainsaw. Don't get any part of your body in the line of the cut. No matter how well trained climbers are there will always be occasions when errors or unforeseen incidents occur. Just as with racing drivers, to get it wrong can be catastrophic. Oh! I got a scratch on my arm on Friday from a bramble in a tree. Do I write that in the accident book?

I've never seen any of the garbo's round here wearing ear defenders. Maybe you could put some draught excluder around the rim of the lid, the rubber P section stuff ot the cheap foam, and drizzle a little virgin olive oil on the axles.

Danger is a perjoritive term and one I distance myself from. That's not to say I don't court danger from time to time. A hazard is something you can usually control. A chainsaw isn't dangerous. It's hazardous, which is why it has safety features and a person should be trained and competent to use/handle one. I've seen and employed people who are dangerous to themselves and others even without a chainsaw. Typically through ignorance and unpredictability. Training is key here, good training is better. However as soon as the silky is out of its scabbard or the chainsaw is started and a human hand, (that's 2 hands on the chainsaw. Don't want to court too much controversy.), is on it to carry out cutting operations hazards present themselves. It's fine telling someone how to prevent kickback. Until you've experienced a good one, or bad depending on how much of you got in the way of the bar, there is no better way to reinforce the potential for harm. This is assuming that the individual concerned has the capacity to learn from their mistakes. If they don't they should not be involved in arboriculture.

You could pick a car up on most modern 10mm. If it gets replaced regularly, what's the problem?

Mercifully, I've only ever had small nicks from silky and chainsaw alike. Some from when I was learning, some from when my mind was elsewhere, some owing to tiredness and some from stupidity. Some of you will know of my Ops Manager, (he also has the title of H&S manager), who cut himself quite badly across the forearm, nerves, muscle and tendons, just over 3 years ago. I think all the pionts raised here are valid. Even those by Paul,AA. We, climbers that is, do the job because we like it. The exposure to hazards is part of the job and I suspect it is also a key factor in the enjoyment, it is for me, even at a subconcious level. Exposure to hazard/risk and dealing with it is living. People have to be exposed to hazards, albeit in a, (mostly), controlled arena, to learn. Kids fall over all the time learning to walk. The occasional one falls over, cracks their head and is disabled or perishes. My kids are 6,4 and 3 and the falling over issue is a small and constant worry. They don't get a great deal of mollycoddling, in fact they get none. They do get a great deal of guidance and the opportunity to climb and run and play in different environments with varying levels of hazards. My staff don't get a great deal of mollycoddling, in fact they get none. They do get a great deal of guidance and the opportunity to climb and run and play in different environments with varying levels of hazards. The challenge for the employer is that, by law, we have to make the working environment as safe as is reasonably practical. Making sure that all operatives are suitably qualified and certificated, all the equipment they use is safe and compliant and has a document trail to prove it. That safe work practices are being specified and used and there is a culture of awareness to H&S. The balance is where the paperwork, culture and qualifications etc are enough to satisfy the courts but not enough to castrate the workers ability to perform his or her tasks and to enjoy them.

About 3 years ago one of my guys came in with what looked like a brand new helmet, we use petzl with Husk attachments. He'd put it through the dishwasher on a lowish heat. I do it regularly now as I used to dismantle it and use an old toothbrush with warm soapy water. Don't worry about the foam in the ears, you can usually sqeeze most of it out, just make sure you do up the chin strap so it doesn't catch the whirly water sprayer. BTW, we use the Finish powerball tablets. Oh and no I don't put it in with the dishes.

Blimey, what size ram. It's been 12+ years since I worked there. Wouldn't have a clue. Dickie is on Arbtalk somewhere. Forget what he calls himself though.

No. The one Dickie had was a guillotine. The blade was guided on both sides and the apeture was about 12"x12". If you could get it through the hole, whether a piece of cord or the edge of a ring, it'd split it or chop it.

Dick Robinson used to have one when I worked there. I agree with Farmer Ben, it was a really good tool. Chop virtually anything across the grain or down it.

Having worked in a number of different industries the issue certainly isn't particular to this one. As was pointed out there is often a lack of understanding of the role of the manager and this isn't always limited to the operatives. The directors and the managers themselves don't always have a clear understanding of the role. It is clear that to have done time on the tools is an advantage although this is only a part of the solution as some people are promoted to managerial positions with little or no ability to manage others or themselves, even though they are competent at an operational level. Some people are good at it some are not. Some people like it some people don't. Management is a skill in the same way as climbing is. To some it comes naturally, others it takes time, effort and training and alas for a few it never arrives. Management is also multi-faceted in that there are many different ways to do it and because it doesn't always deal with regimented systems and robots it's easy to make mistakes. How many times have I told someone to do something instead of ask? Or misunderstood a work process and chewed someone out for it? As individuals or as part of a team we often come to conclusions and make decisions from our own perspective or paradigm without thinking of other views that may influence our decision making process. People promoted from within should be given management training and guidance.

The royal parks each get about 6-7,000,000 pedestrian visitors a year so they have a few monitoring issues of their own. As Maverick said to Goose,'It's a target rich environment.'

The very nice chap from the royal parks gave a briefing on it at the AA conference. They have quite a bit of it there. Seems to affect drought stressed trees more than others and some cultivars not at all. They are setting up a watering system to attempt to alleviate the issue.

Please don't take this the wrong way and there is no disrespect. As you have a vested interest in the apprentice I'm guessing you will have done an amount of research etc to find out all the relevent detail, courses, etc,etc. My point was that there doesn't appear to be any formal structure that makes it easy for both the employer and the employee. The concept of apprenticeships is fine by me. The challenge for the providers/suppliers, [read;companies and or colleges], is to have been sold, metaphorically, the solution in a ready to use package. There has to be a financial incentive, IMO, and it has to be made simple and transparent for all parties. There also has to be a clear delivery timeline with all the responsibilities for mentoring and formal training. Also, most arboricultural contracting companies are not in a position to offer apprenticeships as, economy notwithstanding, they have to devote their training resources to their existing staff given a) the inadequacies in training and certification processes delivered by some current providers and b) the raft of new qualifications that appear with all the toys we now use on site.

Dont you just love days like that:thumbup: They get especially better when you dent the neighbours shed roof and spend more money rectifying the damn thing than the job was worth.

Talking of the stability of regen. At the AAconference there was a chap on Monday, and to my shame his name alludes me, whose PhD is on included forks. A very interesting talk he gave and it's almost the missing link in, I think, in how a pollard then develops into a tree, lapsed pollard, with all the structural stability of a standard tree. I believe he's about to publish his first set of findings in the arb journal.

At 16 you are not insured to use any of the equipment and I'm not sure how you would stand with the employers liability. I suspect it would not cover you either and that there would have to be extra cover taken out. Apprenticeships are a grand idea at the moment and as yet there doesn't appear to be any formal structure in place to make it simple for both the employer and employee. It's very expensive for the employer to take on trainees, even if they pay minimum wage as a senior person has to devote a significant amount of time to mentoring them, taking that person away from their day to day duties. I would suggest a college course and spend you 'off' time doing unpaid work initially for local companies. As you gain qualifications these are reinforced by your practical experience and vice-versa. When you complete a course you are then in a better position to secure work as you will have the balance of good training with work experience. Be aware, tree surgery is very hazardous and bloody hard work so the romance soon wears off. Ask anyone who has had to fight the top out of a conifer hedge riddled with climbing rose in the pouring rain and wind, with no water-proofs, with a saw that won't run, next to a road on one side and a garden full of dog s**t on the other, a rake with 2 teeth, a chipper that keeps blocking and a van that's so full more chip falls off as you load it on. On the up side I've been doing it on and off for 24+ years and still enjoy it. I wouldn't do it if I didn't.

They are to railway spec so totally conform to highways. As with any breathable product they do get grubby quickly so washing/cleaning has to be done with care. We get ours from Welcome to Redwood UK for your professional woodchippers. Sorry this link seems to go through to their woodchipper site. It's the same company. I think they used to be Orchard Hill Supplies near Andover. Any problems PM me and I'll get the office to forward details to you.

They, Stihl, have relatively recently changed the design to reinforce the bit that breaks. It's stil not as good as the original, as I have a handle and side casing from my first one, 1995, that has the sticker on it to prove it, that has done numerous saws and working ok. It's typical value engineering, i.e. using as small amount of material as possible to allow the tool/engine/part to survive the warrenty period. Same as the on/off switches on the MS200t and blowers. And the diaphrams in the carbs.