Lombardy Fell Incident

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Just popping my thoughts in here after reading through the thread.

I have had fells go wrong in the past but not on this magnitude (fence panels being the main suffer). Now I have learned from previous mistakes and like the think I am a more competent feller nowadays.

However I recently did a bit of forestry work and worked with a guy who was a grade A tree feller, every single tree bang on the mark, if there was question to if a tree would go in the intended direction I was sent up to take back weight out to make it safe. This made me realise how bloody skilled some of you forestry lads are. Someone put up earlier that only a handful of tree surgeons are good at felling and after seeing this guy work I'd say your probably bang on the money.

The problem is the bare minimum is to have the CS31 and that's what people get to get a job but never take it any further (CS32/33 etc). I have felled trees that are larger than 31 regs but not when there are things in the way.

I agree that it is likely that these guys were under pressure to get the job done which is why the risk was taken, if been in these situations in the passed when you have to rush to get a job done or expect a rollocking from the boss, and it's horrible. But that being said I would have refused to do that tree within those conditions and would not have put lives at risk like that.

You heart sinks when you see a branch or a whole tree go towards a fence panel let alone if a 80ft 3 tonne tree fall towards members of the public and parked cars.

I obviously don't know the situation but am pleased no one was hurt and if the lads involved can honestly say if was a huge accident then I real feel for them but if they knew that that outcome was a likely scenario then why take the risk.

It certainly should have been cordoned of though.

My 2p anyway.

[TIMON]

I thought one of the main reasons for bringing a subby in is to help on jobs that are assessed to be beyond the skill level/experience of the day to day crew. That way the crew can gain the experience in these kinds of jobs safely.

[Big J]

Just popping my thoughts in here after reading through the thread.

I have had fells go wrong in the past but not on this magnitude (fence panels being the main suffer). Now I have learned from previous mistakes and like the think I am a more competent feller nowadays.

However I recently did a bit of forestry work and worked with a guy who was a grade A tree feller, every single tree bang on the mark, if there was question to if a tree would go in the intended direction I was sent up to take back weight out to make it safe. This made me realise how bloody skilled some of you forestry lads are. Someone put up earlier that only a handful of tree surgeons are good at felling and after seeing this guy work I'd say your probably bang on the money.

The problem is the bare minimum is to have the CS31 and that's what people get to get a job but never take it any further (CS32/33 etc). I have felled trees that are larger than 31 regs but not when there are things in the way.

I agree that it is likely that these guys were under pressure to get the job done which is why the risk was taken, if been in these situations in the passed when you have to rush to get a job done or expect a rollocking from the boss, and it's horrible. But that being said I would have refused to do that tree within those conditions and would not have put lives at risk like that.

You heart sinks when you see a branch or a whole tree go towards a fence panel let alone if a 80ft 3 tonne tree fall towards members of the public and parked cars.

I obviously don't know the situation but am pleased no one was hurt and if the lads involved can honestly say if was a huge accident then I real feel for them but if they knew that that outcome was a likely scenario then why take the risk.

It certainly should have been cordoned of though.

My 2p anyway.

 

Good post.

 

It just comes down to practice. A forestry operative will fell many times more trees in one day than most tree surgeons will fell in a month. We used to average 40-70 a day (hardwood, 12" dbh, 60-70ft on average) years back when I still felled trees regularly. As someone who is at the relatively inexperienced end of forestry, I've probably still dropped 30,000 reasonable sized trees. How many tree surgeons have done that?

 

I don't think tickets are the answer. I've only got CS31 and have never felt the need for more for ground cutting. Experience is what counts, and it wouldn't hurt budding tree surgeons to go spend a few months in the woods.

[Thesnarlingbadger]

I thought one of the main reasons for bringing a subby in is to help on jobs that are assessed to be beyond the skill level/experience of the day to day crew. That way the crew can gain the experience in these kinds of jobs safely.

 

 

That's exactly what this tree feller was on this forestry job I did was he came in the knock some more awkward trees over and I certainly learned a lot from him in a short amount of time. Was a pleasure to watch him work.

[daddyola50]

Good post.

 

It just comes down to practice. A forestry operative will fell many times more trees in one day than most tree surgeons will fell in a month. We used to average 40-70 a day (hardwood, 12" dbh, 60-70ft on average) years back when I still felled trees regularly. As someone who is at the relatively inexperienced end of forestry, I've probably still dropped 30,000 reasonable sized trees. How many tree surgeons have done that?

 

I don't think tickets are the answer. I've only got CS31 and have never felt the need for more for ground cutting. Experience is what counts, and it wouldn't hurt budding tree surgeons to go spend a few months in the woods.

 

nail on the head

[MattyF]

Quite a few I know of ... People forget that a lot of hand cutters came to tree surgery in the early 90's when harvesters only really became the norm on felling sites... That's not that long ago.

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Good post.

 

 

 

It just comes down to practice. A forestry operative will fell many times more trees in one day than most tree surgeons will fell in a month. We used to average 40-70 a day (hardwood, 12" dbh, 60-70ft on average) years back when I still felled trees regularly. As someone who is at the relatively inexperienced end of forestry, I've probably still dropped 30,000 reasonable sized trees. How many tree surgeons have done that?

 

 

 

I don't think tickets are the answer. I've only got CS31 and have never felt the need for more for ground cutting. Experience is what counts, and it wouldn't hurt budding tree surgeons to go spend a few months in the woods.

 

 

That's a fair point maybe these larger felling tickets are not needed if you are felling all day everyday in a forestry environment. However if you rarely fell trees and are more of a climber it may be an advantage to learn to problems that can occur felling larger trees and it's not always a simple gob and back cut with a rope on with some of these big buggers.

[treequip]

I thought one of the main reasons for bringing a subby in is to help on jobs that are assessed to be beyond the skill level/experience of the day to day crew. That way the crew can gain the experience in these kinds of jobs safely.

 

Yes to the first part but if you are hiring a contract climber then that's what he is.

 

If you can pick up by observation that's fine but if you want to accredit it as a training session it needs to be set up as such.

[richy_B]

I know of many companies who've done exactly that and continue to do it for reassessments.

It's a total joke.

Every single operator I know, knows that this happens. Surely the AA are not so naive that they don't know this happens!?

That's ridiculous. I have never (perhaps nievely) even considered companies did this. I would have thought an assessor would have some method of checking employment status of the teams, how long they have worked their etc. It's like bringing someone in to sit your driving test for you! No ethics at all.

[TIMON]

Yes to the first part but if you are hiring a contract climber then that's what he is.

 

 

 

If you can pick up by observation that's fine but if you want to accredit it as a training session it needs to be set up as such.

 

 

That's what we try and do. Our subby is also an NPTC trainer so he is really good at passing his skills on.

Obviously old fashioned apprenticeships are the ideal for someone to progress from rookie climber to seasoned pro. I doubt there are that many around anymore.