Making the news today....

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

You usually have a half decent counter argument Mull....

 

Not your usual self on this one....

 

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

7 hours ago, onetruth said:

...and with margins being tight in the industry, unless there was a willingness for the consumer or government to fund a mass vaccination programme, it wont be an effective solution either. 

Or.....

 

People eat much less meat.....

 

Once a week maybe....

[Mick Dempsey]

England unveil new kit for the World Cup in Russia.

[Commando]

Or.....
 
People eat much less meat.....
 
Once a week maybe....

If the price for meat (and milk) was where it should be, maybe people wouldn’t eat so much.
All farmers do is respond to the market (both global and domestic). I agree Kev, intensive farming methods do not help the bTB problem.
Perhaps better regulation (farm audits/inspections) linked to environmental schemes/payments would/will help?
Pretty sure reintroduction of apex predators (assume wolves?) for badgers would not work in UK outside of wild areas.
I struggle to understand the hunting ban (beyond the misconception of it being the sport of the upper classes, and the extremely poor PR campaign by both hunts and the CA).
In my experience and opinion it has certainly done little for the welfare of foxes. I have seen far more mangy malnourished foxes about, AND more importantly, generally less foxes since the ban (difficult to distinguish between healthy and sickly through a rifle scope at 200m).
Unfortunately my local area is now regularly over-run with a new breed of vermin - aKa hunt sabs!

[matelot]

9 hours ago, onetruth said:

...and with margins being tight in the industry, unless there was a willingness for the consumer or government to fund a mass vaccination programme, it wont be an effective solution either. 

Do you not think the farmer gets enough in Government subsidies already? They already get billions.... They shouldn't get more to vaccinate cattle against TB...

 

As an industry farming provides relatively few jobs that pay absolute rubbish money. Farming's contribution to the economy is minuscule yet they still get billions in subsidies....

 

Tree surgeons don't earn much money. What the government should do is give each tree surgeon a new saw, L200 truck, chipper and a mog. 

 

 

[Mull]

You usually have a half decent counter argument Mull....
 
Not your usual self on this one....
 
Really?
 

I’m struggling to understand your point, apart from the odd farmer getting too much subsidy, and wanting to turn the countryside into some sort of tree/scrub infested hell.

Or.....
 
People eat much less meat.....
 
Once a week maybe....

Animals like humans die from various causes, old and young, just like humans, where there’s livestock there will be deadstock, it’s a hard fact of life.
I, like many millions like to eat meat, don’t tell me what to eat Kev!

[john p]

Do you not think the farmer gets enough in Government subsidies already? They already get billions.... They shouldn't get more to vaccinate cattle against TB...
 
As an industry farming provides relatively few jobs that pay absolute rubbish money. Farming's contribution to the economy is minuscule yet they still get billions in subsidies....
 
Tree surgeons don't earn much money. What the government should do is give each tree surgeon a new saw, L200 truck, chipper and a mog. 
 
 

I’d prefer a hilux if possible

[Commando]

Do you not think the farmer gets enough in Government subsidies already? They already get billions.... They shouldn't get more to vaccinate cattle against TB...

Firstly much of the subsidies go to landowners not the tenant farmers.
Secondly I think future subsidies should be tied into environmental schemes and that food prices should be allowed to react to the market. Much easier when we are out of the EU, as long as the gov. has the balls to counter external pressures. Cheap imports must be subject to appropriate tariffs.
If we want the countryside and our waterways to be well managed we have to pay!
 
As an industry farming provides relatively few jobs that pay absolute rubbish money. Farming's contribution to the economy is minuscule yet they still get billions in subsidies....

£24 billion of revenues and £8.4 billion Gross is hardly minuscule mate.

[matelot]

@Commando

 

The UK economy is worth about £2,000,000,000,000 a year. So farming's contribution of £8,400,000,000 is fairly tiny....

 

Farmers get direct subsidies of £3 billion a year. They also get indirect subsidies such as not having to pay rates on their property. What does society get in return? A couple of hundred thousand poorly paid jobs? 

 

Realistically, subsidies for sheep farming in the highlands of the UK is economic lunacy. Get rid of the subsidies and sheep and get some nice forestry instead. Then arable farmers - with farms worth millions - get subsidies from the taxpayer? 

[Commando]

28 minutes ago, matelot said:

@Commando

 

The UK economy is worth about £2,000,000,000,000 a year. So farming's contribution of £8,400,000,000 is fairly tiny....

 

Farmers get direct subsidies of £3 billion a year. They also get indirect subsidies such as not having to pay rates on their property. What does society get in return? A couple of hundred thousand poorly paid jobs? 

 

Realistically, subsidies for sheep farming in the highlands of the UK is economic lunacy. Get rid of the subsidies and sheep and get some nice forestry instead. Then arable farmers - with farms worth millions - get subsidies from the taxpayer? 

Read my post mate, I agree that the current subsidy system is wrong. You need to see farmings contribution beyond economics! The whole way that agriculture is supported needs a shake up.  BUT the initial idea of subsidies - ensuring that there is sufficient affordable food to feed the country is still relevant.  I'm not an advocate of globalisation, and getting ourselves in a situation where we are fully dependant on food imports is wrong from both a moral and security standpoint, and would leave us open to external pressure or worse.

Without subsidies we will see the demise of even more small farms, and more huge intensive, US style units will become commonplace.