Making the news today....

[matelot]

@Commando

 

The UK economy is worth about £2,000,000,000,000 a year. So farming's contribution of £8,400,000,000 is fairly tiny....

 

Farmers get direct subsidies of £3 billion a year. They also get indirect subsidies such as not having to pay rates on their property. What does society get in return? A couple of hundred thousand poorly paid jobs? 

 

Realistically, subsidies for sheep farming in the highlands of the UK is economic lunacy. Get rid of the subsidies and sheep and get some nice forestry instead. Then arable farmers - with farms worth millions - get subsidies from the taxpayer? 

[Commando]

28 minutes ago, matelot said:

@Commando

 

The UK economy is worth about £2,000,000,000,000 a year. So farming's contribution of £8,400,000,000 is fairly tiny....

 

Farmers get direct subsidies of £3 billion a year. They also get indirect subsidies such as not having to pay rates on their property. What does society get in return? A couple of hundred thousand poorly paid jobs? 

 

Realistically, subsidies for sheep farming in the highlands of the UK is economic lunacy. Get rid of the subsidies and sheep and get some nice forestry instead. Then arable farmers - with farms worth millions - get subsidies from the taxpayer? 

Read my post mate, I agree that the current subsidy system is wrong. You need to see farmings contribution beyond economics! The whole way that agriculture is supported needs a shake up.  BUT the initial idea of subsidies - ensuring that there is sufficient affordable food to feed the country is still relevant.  I'm not an advocate of globalisation, and getting ourselves in a situation where we are fully dependant on food imports is wrong from both a moral and security standpoint, and would leave us open to external pressure or worse.

Without subsidies we will see the demise of even more small farms, and more huge intensive, US style units will become commonplace.

[matelot]

2 hours ago, Commando said:

BUT the initial idea of subsidies - ensuring that there is sufficient affordable food to feed the country is still relevant.

So how do subsidies work in practice? The government taxes people and gives the money to farmers so they can grow more food? Why not just let the population keep their money so they have more money to buy food...

 

Anyway, I honestly think the price of food should go up... There are far too many lard arses about. Higher food prices would make the population healthier.

 

 

2 hours ago, Commando said:

I'm not an advocate of globalisation, and getting ourselves in a situation where we are fully dependant on food imports is wrong from both a moral and security standpoint, and would leave us open to external pressure or worse.

 

No one is saying we should get rid of all farming... Maybe just get rid of the farms that really shouldn't be farming ie sheep farms.

 

 

2 hours ago, Commando said:

Without subsidies we will see the demise of even more small farms, and more huge intensive, US style units will become commonplace.

I'd imagine it's the huge US style farms that produce food the cheapest... What do you want? Cheap food or the continuation of small farms....

[Richard 1234]

Maybe there should be a minimum price for all produce instead that far exceeds today’s prices So that farmers got paid enough to actually farm instead of diversification into storage, car boot sales etc etc. Not government backed as a subsidy in all but name but minimum farm gate prices that buyers have to pay with the full cost then paid for by the consumer.
Doubt it would work as people won’t like paying £2.50 for a loaf of bread or £5 for a small bag of potatoes.
The subsidies subsidise everyone not just the farmers.
As for the big grain farmers thats one of the reasons the system is wrong. But also where a lot of the food comes from. I know a lot of farmers who would prefer proper prices instead of subsidy!

[Macpherson]

11 minutes ago, matelot said:

Maybe just get rid of the farms that really shouldn't be farming ie sheep farms.

Bloody tasty....Scottish lamb!  And I for one don't want my part of the country ruined further by any more forestry unless it's more diverse, they've just been harvesting about here....well glad to see the back of it... but what an effing mess.

[matelot]

10 minutes ago, Richard 1234 said:

Maybe there should be a minimum price for all produce instead that far exceeds today’s prices So that farmers got paid enough to actually farm instead of diversification into storage, car boot sales etc etc. Not government backed as a subsidy in all but name but minimum farm gate prices that buyers have to pay with the full cost then paid for by the consumer.

Tbh, this attitude that farmers are hard done by really grates with me. A fairly typical farm will be worth a couple of million. Yet they get subsidies as well and don't pay rates etc.

 

Maybe if farmers can't make a go of their business they should SELL THE FARM AND MOVE TO SPAIN WITH THE MILLIONS AND STOP WHINING!

[Richard 1234]

Tbh, this attitude that farmers are hard done by really grates with me. A fairly typical farm will be worth a couple of million. Yet they get subsidies as well and don't pay rates etc.
 
Maybe if farmers can't make a go of their business they should SELL THE FARM AND MOVE TO SPAIN WITH THE MILLIONS AND STOP WHINING!

That just shows how little an idea you have of how the business works.
The few are worth £2 million plus (along with fewer that are worth a lot more than that!)
I didn’t say they were hard done by! As usual you don’t take in anything anyone else says and have you pre conceived idea that can’t be budged!

Put rates on farms stop subsidies but pay proper money for food an all will be well.

[matelot]

2 hours ago, Richard 1234 said:

That just shows how little an idea you have of how the business works.
The few are worth £2 million plus (along with fewer that are worth a lot more than that!)
I didn’t say they were hard done by! As usual you don’t take in anything anyone else says and have you pre conceived idea that can’t be budged!

Put rates on farms stop subsidies but pay proper money for food an all will be well.

Or how about:

 

A. No more subsidies for farms.

B. Farms pay business rates like every other business.

C. Farmers start paying proper fines when they commit environmental offences. Ie no more "slap on the wrist" fines when farmers kill all wildlife in rivers when slurry tanks fail.

D. Farmland no longer Inheritance Tax Free. So that multimillionaires no longer buy farms to reduce IHT on their estates.

 

The result will: 

 

A. Farmland goes down in price.

B. The cost of food in the shops stays about the same.

 

Let's be honest here. A lot of politicians own farmland. There are a lot of vested interests that want subsidies and tax perks to remain the same. Giving billions to rich landowners is really not in the public interest.

 

 

[Commando]

Steady on old chap....you almost sound like just another bitter socialist!

[Richard 1234]

Or how about:
 
A. No more subsidies for farms.
B. Farms pay business rates like every other business.
C. Farmers start paying proper fines when they commit environmental offences. Ie no more "slap on the wrist" fines when farmers kill all wildlife in rivers when slurry tanks fail.
D. Farmland no longer Inheritance Tax Free. So that multimillionaires no longer buy farms to reduce IHT on their estates.
 
The result will: 
 
A. Farmland goes down in price.
B. The cost of food in the shops stays about the same.
 
Let's be honest here. A lot of politicians own farmland. There are a lot of vested interests that want subsidies and tax perks to remain the same. Giving billions to rich landowners is really not in the public interest.
 
 

Brilliant why didn’t we vote you into power. All would be solved!
I wonder how you would cure immigration [emoji848]