Making the news today....

[Big J]

26 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

No idea about Sweden and Norway I’m just giving you a first hand account of what I found. What do you use by the way ?? 

I’ve spent enough time in winter in Finland to know they do something right over there. Houses were for my taste uncomfortably warm most of the time. Pretty sure nuclear was the predominant power source at the time. 
The stove in the pic is the main heat source for my house 5KW running on milling waste 👍👍I’ll take that any day over the set up he had in Uist. 

 

I find that many of our friends and acquaintances here heat their house to a level that is beyond my comfort level. I do run hot most of the time, I should say.

 

All new heating installations here (with maybe a few exceptions) are heat pumps. Air/air, air/water and ground/water. Plenty of people are still using pellet boilers for their central heating, but I don't see any being installed. 

 

For me, the best thing is that it's much cheaper than fossil fuel direct heating. 300-440% efficiency and the ability to cool in summer. In winter it's much colder than anywhere in the UK and in summer hottter too. If it can be done here, it can be done in the UK.

[Steven P]

Air source heat pump prices - you are comparing an electrically heated house with a gas heated house.... you need to compare like for like, electrically heated vs. electrically heated and there you will find air/ground source heat pumps are cheaper. Not everyone has a gas supply, but gas costs 1/3 of electricity for the same heat?

 

Solar panels, wind mills or whatever you can do at home, lose out a lot if you export the power when you have to much and import it again when you need it (say you sell at 10p/kwh and buy at 30p/kwh), if you can use the power directly you gain more, so a battery needed or do heating with it as and when you can (even hot water)

[Big J]

35 minutes ago, Steven P said:

Air source heat pump prices - you are comparing an electrically heated house with a gas heated house.... you need to compare like for like, electrically heated vs. electrically heated and there you will find air/ground source heat pumps are cheaper. Not everyone has a gas supply, but gas costs 1/3 of electricity for the same heat?

 

Solar panels, wind mills or whatever you can do at home, lose out a lot if you export the power when you have to much and import it again when you need it (say you sell at 10p/kwh and buy at 30p/kwh), if you can use the power directly you gain more, so a battery needed or do heating with it as and when you can (even hot water)

 

There is no mains gas here. Traditionally, it was wood or oil that was used for heating. 

Today's electricity price (as we pay a price that varies, hour to hour) is around 12 pence a kW. If I were to use the heating, my air source heat pump would cost me 4 pence per kWh and my ground source would cost me 3 pence.

 

It's academic, as we don't have gas, but I don't think that gas could come close to that. Heating and powering our house in Sweden has been much cheaper than any of the much smaller houses we've had in the UK, and I believe that the efficiency of the heat pumps plays a significant part in that. 

[Johnsond]

6 hours ago, Big J said:

 

I find that many of our friends and acquaintances here heat their house to a level that is beyond my comfort level. I do run hot most of the time, I should say.

 

All new heating installations here (with maybe a few exceptions) are heat pumps. Air/air, air/water and ground/water. Plenty of people are still using pellet boilers for their central heating, but I don't see any being installed. 

 

For me, the best thing is that it's much cheaper than fossil fuel direct heating. 300-440% efficiency and the ability to cool in summer. In winter it's much colder than anywhere in the UK and in summer hottter too. If it can be done here, it can be done in the UK.

I’d not disagree in the whole J but as you’ve alluded to yourself on many occasions the quality of housing in general is not great here particularly compared to the Scandinavian and Baltic states ( my Finnish ex constantly gets on her high horse regarding that particular comparison) We desperately need to move away from the full on capitalism profit at all cost model especially from what I consider essential services ie water, gas/electricity etc etc hopefully the last 12-18 month has brought home how bad things are in reality. Maybe in the future more builders will incorporate better systems including solar panels etc but the reality of a pure electric only source of heating last winter for me would have been financially horrific. Just curious and being lazy not researching it but what’s the set up over there regards electricity companies and the main source ie nuclear/ gas etc. 
The Norwegian crane op on the vessel I’m on was explaining to us how he charges his electric vehicle to 100% for literally pence, some huge powerful Chinese suv thing. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Johnsond

[Steven P]

4 hours ago, Big J said:

 

There is no mains gas here. Traditionally, it was wood or oil that was used for heating. 

Ahh, should have said UK gas prices....

 

 

I read somewhere once that UK houses were traditionally built to be leaky - loads of ventilation because we heated with gas and open fires. Leaky houses are easier since the is less build up of carbon monoxide and a mild climate with cheapish fuels this was OK. Look at installing a stove, houses built before a set date (as recently as the late 2000s?) don't need to be checked for air leaks - it is assumed that they are. I bet that in Europe and Scandinavia the homes will need to be checked regardless (though I don't know, google wasn't as helpful as often is). Harsher winters makes poor insulation a bad thing.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Steven P

[eggsarascal]

1 hour ago, Johnsond said:

We desperately need to move away from the full on capitalism profit at all cost model especially from what I consider essential services ie water, gas/electricity.

I can’t see that happening, I can only talk from the water industry, the water authority I worked for are owned by the French and Canadians, there is very little chance of it coming back into public ownership.

[Johnsond]

49 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

I can’t see that happening, I can only talk from the water industry, the water authority I worked for are owned by the French and Canadians, there is very little chance of it coming back into public ownership.

I get that eggs but a part state part private set up surely has to benefit all rather than watching the astronomical profits going solely to the private sector. I’d like to think if the bullshit regards competition giving us choice and more affordable bills etc was bandied about now people would ask a few more questions. Like I said to mark bud I think we are ****************ed here big time. 

[eggsarascal]

2 hours ago, Johnsond said:

I get that eggs but a part state part private set up surely has to benefit all rather than watching the astronomical profits going solely to the private sector. I’d like to think if the bullshit regards competition giving us choice and more affordable bills etc was bandied about now people would ask a few more questions. Like I said to mark bud I think we are ****************ed here big time. 

As much as I agree it isn’t going to happen, ‘we’ve’ sold our assets off, I’m seriously thinking about getting another motorhome and doing Europe again. I’m aware of the 90 days in 180 (brexit) but I’m fairly good at hiding.

[Mick Dempsey]

5 hours ago, eggsarascal said:

As much as I agree it isn’t going to happen, ‘we’ve’ sold our assets off, I’m seriously thinking about getting another motorhome and doing Europe again. I’m aware of the 90 days in 180 (brexit) but I’m fairly good at hiding.

You get your passport stamped (and dated) when you leave.

So they don’t come looking for you. 
But they’ll catch you coming back.

[sime42]

On 06/08/2023 at 10:17, openspaceman said:

Too many reasons but the basic one is the culture of investment here, we have a high wage economy and a desirable living environment that has attracted a lot of inward investment in property. The capital gains have been so high that it has provided better returns than investment in production. This has gone on so long that manufacturing has failed to attract investment for decades and now will never catch up.

 

Simply put our wages mean manufacturers cannot compete with imports, thus there are better places for the wealthy to invest their money.

 

Those of us who work in rich peoples gardens  realise we are servicing their wants because it pays us better than being involved in production or manufacturing.

 

PS I have never worked in a factory and never wanted to.

 

It was more of a rhetorical question but this is thought provoking, thanks.

 

Maybe it's time for a rethink of how we run our economy, to move away from investment in property and services, back to manufacturing. Said in a somewhat tongue in cheek manner obviously, as it'd be a huge cultural shift, but with everything else going on in this time of social and economic turmoil we might as well give it a go. Wages are rising in China, and in the East generally so it should be getting easier to bring manufacturing back to the UK. Whilst we're at it why not initiate higher pay for skilled engineers and other manual trades, and at the same time  lower pay for bankers, lawyers, management consultants etc?

 

A couple of incidental thoughts; A lot of manufacturing is done by robots and other automation now, that's only going to increase. I've no experience of either but I imagine that working in a factory can't be much worse than working in an Amazon distribution center, or suchlike. Also, working in a lot of the service industry, such as high street retail must be pretty soul destroying. Personally I'd hate to spend all day in a shopping centre;-  artificial lighting, noise, air conditioning, no constructive output, that'd be zero job satisfaction for me. At least you see the fruits of your labours in a factory.