Making the news today....

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

Where are these accusations towards you and the white population and where have I made broad sweeping statements that would be classed as racist in another context?

6 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Do you not believe that racism is a problem in this country?

 

6 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Do we as a country not need to recognise the wrongs that have been committed by our countrymen in the past and do something to right those wrongs? 

Are you honestly trying to sat that these comments are not directed at the White population of the UK? They are inherently racist. It sets the tone for your entire point of view as carefully constructed as it is to be easily deniable for being inherently racist. It is an attack on innocent people bases solely on the colour of their skin. If that not is racism then nothing is. 

[donnk]

The 'sides' are getting more and more skewed and its not healthy in my opinion.

 

right : cummings hounded by press for breaking quarantine

Left: mp's doing same. no media outrage

 

right: protests mass pakistani rapes. pillaried by press, arrested by plod.

left: defaces  cenotaph, churchill statue. no action taken.

 

right: ex-pm, ex- chief defence staff accused of being pedo's by labour dep leader.

left: found to be bullshit, no action taken. may even goto lords.

 

right: homosexualty is wrong. media go nuts, police involved, hate crime etc etc

left: muslims protest same sex being taught in schools, on camera saying homo is wrong. no action taken.

 

time and time again and we see one sided justice. The quiet majority will take this for so long then look out. brexit is a good example.

 

[Steve Bullman]

Getting a bit out of hand in here. If you can't discuss these sorts of topics without resorting to swearing and aggressive behaviour to other members then please don't bother. I've just handed out 2 7 day bans and would rather not hand out anymore, thanks.

[Sutton]

24 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

Where are these accusations towards you and the white population

You make good points. Interesting reading. Just remember most of us manual workers don't deal with many people and want tomorrow to be as predictable as it was yesterday. We save feelings for our families not strangers. Solving physical/material day to day probs, routine & rhythm of working with machines means we like order, habit and respect for authority/tradition. What you're saying is distrust our history, be suspicious of our non-PC friends and hope for a progressive future. Can see why older people would struggle with this - given they've got a plateful of their own probs already? Just saying

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, Youngstu said:

And for thousands of years our ancestors and those of other groups of people in the world would have been regarded as "uncivilised", killing one another left right and centre, mistreating or exploiting their enemies along with  their own countrymen and families if they were not deemed to be worth treating well. 

If we were to consider ourselves to be a civilised and just country at this time (and possibly for the last century give or take a few wars, war crimes etc), is it not important to recognise the wrongs that were committed by the people who came before us which lead to our country becoming rich, powerful and "civilised" at the expense of other nations and their citizens. 

Many of our towns, cities and people still benefit from the profits made at the expense of those who were exploited, whether that's through our public buildings, universities, parks and other things that benefit the general population. 

I understand that you don't feel that you would want to apologise for something that wasn't your fault and many people don't wish to do so, but do you have no empathy or understanding of why there are many in our society who still feel the pain of what happened to their ancestors, how that  has effected them and others within their social grouping due to the treatment that has continued up until now?

Do you also seriously think it's unreasonable for others in our society to wish to stand alongside and support those who have been wronged through exploitation and discrimination over generations? 

If it wasn't for the British (and several other European nations) exploiting their colonies we would not have been able to maintain our position in the world.  Surely we should help and support those (countries, people) who were exploited for our benefit. 

What do you want me to do like ??? Throw myself at the feet of every coloured person or descendant of a former British colony ???  Get a grip for Christ sake. 

[Youngstu]

26 minutes ago, Sutton said:

You make good points. Interesting reading. Just remember most of us manual workers don't deal with many people and want tomorrow to be as predictable as it was yesterday. We save feelings for our families not strangers. Solving physical/material day to day probs, routine & rhythm of working with machines means we like order, habit and respect for authority/tradition. What you're saying is distrust our history, be suspicious of our non-PC friends and hope for a progressive future. Can see why older people would struggle with this - given they've got a plateful of their own probs already? Just saying

I understand what you're saying and the points you've made. Due to the opinions often expressed on here and treatment of those with more liberal view I rarely post but felt that today some opinions and statements needed to be challenged. I didn't expect my point of view to be agreed with by some, but have to admit to being quite shocked by the responses and the venom directed towards those with different opinions, which is probably why you see much less in the way of a liberal point of view on these forums. 

 

[Youngstu]

13 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

What do you want me to do like ??? Throw myself at the feet of every coloured person or descendant of a former British colony ???  Get a grip for Christ sake. 

not at all, but maybe show some understanding about why others wish to support those fighting against racism and discrimination that is entrenched in our society.

[donnk]

2 hours ago, Youngstu said:

And for thousands of years our ancestors and those of other groups of people in the world would have been regarded as "uncivilised", killing one another left right and centre, mistreating or exploiting their enemies along with  their own countrymen and families if they were not deemed to be worth treating well. 

If we were to consider ourselves to be a civilised and just country at this time (and possibly for the last century give or take a few wars, war crimes etc), is it not important to recognise the wrongs that were committed by the people who came before us which lead to our country becoming rich, powerful and "civilised" at the expense of other nations and their citizens. 

Many of our towns, cities and people still benefit from the profits made at the expense of those who were exploited, whether that's through our public buildings, universities, parks and other things that benefit the general population. 

I understand that you don't feel that you would want to apologise for something that wasn't your fault and many people don't wish to do so, but do you have no empathy or understanding of why there are many in our society who still feel the pain of what happened to their ancestors, how that  has effected them and others within their social grouping due to the treatment that has continued up until now?

Do you also seriously think it's unreasonable for others in our society to wish to stand alongside and support those who have been wronged through exploitation and discrimination over generations? 

If it wasn't for the British (and several other European nations) exploiting their colonies we would not have been able to maintain our position in the world.  Surely we should help and support those (countries, people) who were exploited for our benefit. 

the problem with this sort of collective guilt arguement is that it requires one side of it, 'the victim' to be acknolwedged by the other side as such. When this doesnt happen as people quite rightly cant be blames for the sins of the father, it kicks off. 

 

I do think we need to be honest and say not all cultures are equal.

 

The British has been a force for good throughout history, nearly all the former colonies are doing much better than their neighbours for example.

 

Why is it African countries are pretty much all $hitholes ? Is the cause of this it the race/populace or culture ?  or the fact some of them were colonies couple hundred years ago ?

 

cultures of the east are dominated by religion, women an underclass, homosexuals illegal etc. 

 

Make a list of all countries with no sewage/sanitation for the populace and you will see a pattern.

 

Western culture where religion is not a force in either the running of the country or legal system has set the bar. 

 

Sooner the politicians call out failed cultures the sooner they can be fixed. The media/left wont even allow the discussion of it as it would of course be called racist/hate speech etc.

 

 

Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sutton]

7 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

 have to admit to being quite shocked

 

Arbtalk is not a henhouse with only room for one cock! Look at MarkJ - he's not shy. Keep at it

[Khriss]

Shall look forward to some peace n quiet n tree talk then. ( god wot did i just say ?) k