Making the news today....

[sime42]

On 03/09/2023 at 09:49, Big J said:

 

I don't even think with higher wages that Brits would entertain the idea of fruit/veg picking. The issue is that it has to be tied to production rate and like with chainsaw operation, the difference between the best and the worst is massive and hourly rates can't be paid in such situations.

 

Another point potentially worth noting is that Brits aren't very good at sticking at one job for extended periods of time. I recall seeing a TV show where German and British employees swapped jobs for a period. I don't remember the name of the programme, but the German company was Faber Castell (pencil maker). They spoke to an employee who operated a specific machine and had done so for over ten years. He was perfectly happy. The job was semi skilled, but he was very good at it, had excellent work conditions and took pride in his work.

 

It is more common in the UK (and I include myself in this) for employees to see each job only as an entry on their CV. A progression to the next opportunity. That short-termist approach to employment means it's unlikely for UK workers to stick at fruit and veg picking for any period of time as they'll be looking at the employment horizon beyond.

 

It's a generalisation I know, but I do feel that there is truth in it. I found it to be the case with chainsaw operatives in the UK. It was very difficult to find quality cutters who were technically adept, hard working and without ego. The best cutters were running or wanted to run their own squads, and there were a lot of lads that thought they were brilliant when really they weren't. 

 

As regards immigration here in Sweden, no one will argue that it was done perfectly. Too many in too short a time is the consensus. The problems are obviously worse in the cities and we don't see the kinds of issues that they do. 

 

I really like that our school has 30% kids with parents born outside of Sweden. It's about 10-12% German/Austrian, and my daughters are at school with kids from Syria, the Baltic states, the UK, almost every country in Europe and even America. 

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head here and with another point in a previous post. It's not the wages that are the issue with the fruit and veg picking, it's just the sheer physical nature of the work involved. The average brit is not fit enough to do it. Most that need the employment choose not to do it, even if they were offered more money, they'd rather get slightly less money to sit at home on benefits. Such is the mess of a system here.

Just compare the physical shape and size of the average hardworking immigrant to the average obese British Benefit Bum. Unsurprisingly, I've heard a few times now that employers would much rather use foreign labour because of their output and work ethic.

 

A personal account from this weekend that illustrates the above. So we went for a walk up a well known large Shropshire hill yesterday, as it was a lovely warm day. There were hundreds of people at the top but we were the only ones using our own two feet to get there, apart from one cyclist and one crazy fell runner.  The rest were a load of blobs in cars, almost nose-to-tail driving up to the top and back down again. Pausing only long enough to have a sugary snack and drink, judging by all the litter strewn around the place. To cap it all off there were a couple of people dragging their two children around the car park in one of those four wheeled festival shopping trolley things. As if they couldn't walk even that short distance themselves. The children looked about the same age, if not slightly older than my son. Who'd walked all the way up, then back again without much bother, about 4 1/2 miles in total. (Having eaten almost as much as me!) No wonder we have an obesity epidemic, and can't even pick our own fruit and veg.

 

The state of things makes you want to despair at times.

 

I'm guessing I know the answer, but what are the average fitness and BMI levels like in Sweden?

 

 

 

[Steven P]

2 hours ago, carlos said:

i thought it was the covid restrictions that were ruining the country!??

now its the immigrants !!!!

 

Jees!! How on earth do you think we got Covid in the first place? Like the plague of 1665, it came over the Chanel on boats. Do keep up.

[Big J]

1 hour ago, sime42 said:

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head here and with another point in a previous post. It's not the wages that are the issue with the fruit and veg picking, it's just the sheer physical nature of the work involved. The average brit is not fit enough to do it. Most that need the employment choose not to do it, even if they were offered more money, they'd rather get slightly less money to sit at home on benefits. Such is the mess of a system here.

Just compare the physical shape and size of the average hardworking immigrant to the average obese British Benefit Bum. Unsurprisingly, I've heard a few times now that employers would much rather use foreign labour because of their output and work ethic.

 

A personal account from this weekend that illustrates the above. So we went for a walk up a well known large Shropshire hill yesterday, as it was a lovely warm day. There were hundreds of people at the top but we were the only ones using our own two feet to get there, apart from one cyclist and one crazy fell runner.  The rest were a load of blobs in cars, almost nose-to-tail driving up to the top and back down again. Pausing only long enough to have a sugary snack and drink, judging by all the litter strewn around the place. To cap it all off there were a couple of people dragging their two children around the car park in one of those four wheeled festival shopping trolley things. As if they couldn't walk even that short distance themselves. The children looked about the same age, if not slightly older than my son. Who'd walked all the way up, then back again without much bother, about 4 1/2 miles in total. (Having eaten almost as much as me!) No wonder we have an obesity epidemic, and can't even pick our own fruit and veg.

 

The state of things makes you want to despair at times.

 

I'm guessing I know the answer, but what are the average fitness and BMI levels like in Sweden?

 

Even in the non-physical roles, the work ethic of younger Brits coming up leaves a bit to be desired. I used to work a lot with a harvesting company in Scotland (used them for haulage mainly) and they used almost exclusively chaps from the Baltic states for harvester and forwarder operation, as well as mechanics. It wasn't to pay them less, far from it. They just worked harder and produced more, as well as being more reliable.

 

It's interesting to hear your reflections on your hill climb in Shropshire. We had a family here a few weeks ago from near Brighton (we manage some holiday lets) and the chap hired a mountain bike from us. We have excellent mountain biking here in the village, and the ski slope here is part of a national enduro cycling series. He reflected on the fact that when he cycles on the south downs, almost everyone has an E-mountain bike. 

 

I've yet to see a single one here. Loads of folk from the village cycle (MTB, road and gravel) and not one has an E-bike. It's fairly hilly here too. 

 

The average BMI is certainly a lot lower here, but the lifestyle hinges more around sport and physical activity than it does in the UK. Part of that is the free and open access to the countryside and also that sports are heavily subsidised by the state.

 

 

[Mike Hill]

2 hours ago, Steven P said:

 

Jees!! How on earth do you think we got Covid in the first place? Like the plague of 1665, it came over the Chanel on boats. Do keep up.

Imagine if covid was Muslim and was transfered via grants to Mosques!

 

WE ARE DOOMED.

[Mike Hill]

3 hours ago, peds said:

I think you'll find it's a secret cabal of the poor, students, and the gays. 

Lefty darkies with Muslim sympathies plotting mass stone throwing events.

 

Everything would be better if they integrated by being white,straight,educated and wealthy.

 

It's so easy.

[peds]

Steady on, we don't want people to be too educated. We are tired of experts. 

[Mike Hill]

Everyone knows best when they are very alone,yelling at the Internet.

[Johnsond]

It’s good to see a few  I’d presume pro multiculturalism like minded souls interacting and enjoying themselves but just out of curiosity on a day to day basis how often do members actually mix or work with a decent variety of nationalities or religions or have worked in Africa,Middle or Far east etc I’ve just checked the crew list on the Norwegian flagged vessel I’m on. We have 19 different nationalities onboard with at least 6, but probably more religions. Integration is never an issue, people treat each other with respect, rules are followed, very rarely is anyone offended by anything and no one is trying to push a particular agenda. Every single person has worked and earned the right to be here. We will all finish the project and go our separate ways, mostly back to homes and families, as it should be. 
 

[peds]

I worked with an Egyptian fella for two years once, he was an utterly loathsome human being. Cherry picked which tenets of his inherited religion suited him best at any given moment, and swept the rest under the carpet. 

Made great pizza though. 

[Mike Hill]

Been living amongst other nationalities full time for the last 25 years. Left New Zealand when I was 20.

 

Anyway,back to the Muslim immigrant stone chucking government funded house dwelling covid sprinklers.