Trading Standards

[muldonach]

What is this suitable equipment, and where does one obtain it? He does not say.

 

He doesnt say but it would be interesting to see P&K challenge a 1 litre jug used to fill a cut down IBC with 1000l of water.:001_tt2:

 

Alternatively the local firewood sellers could see it through to a European Court - given the way they sell firewood in France I would not bet too much on P&K chances:thumbup::thumbup:

 

http://www.britannica.com/science/stere

 

Cheers

mac

Edited November 6, 2015 by muldonach

[muldonach]

The email response we got also.

 

 

A project is being carried out by this service to look into the manner of sale of firewood, you have not been singled out. The project was initiated by the fact that the number of firewood suppliers has increased greatly in recent years and there seemed to be a lack of understanding as to what the legal position is when selling firewood.

 

You can tell your customers the dimensions of the bags you use e.g. 100cm x 100cm x 100cm but as soon as you refer to cubic volumes or weights the transaction is caught by the Weights and Measures Act 1985 and you will be required to use suitable equipment to measure the volume or weight of the goods, suitable equipment would be equipment which has been approved and verified for use for trade.

 

Where sellers are selling firewood by the load these transactions are not caught by the above legislation as no weight or volume is declared and it is up to the customer to decide if the price is value for money. I know it goes against what you would think but not declaring a weight or volume is the easiest and most straight forward option for the seller.

 

 

 

Do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further advice or information.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

This smells a bit fishy - the Act is quite clear that where a Byelaw is in place then firewood can only be sold at retail by weight.

 

The email makes no such statement so it would appear that P&K TS have not enacted a Byelaw

 

The basis of the letter also appears incorrect - the act applies because you are selling goods at retail and not because you refer to those goods in terms of weight or volume. It is people who are selling by the load who are in contravention of section 26 of this Act.

 

The statement underlined has in this thread been taken (and in my view is meant to be) to mean that if you are going to sell in cubic metres you will need some kind of "approved" cubic metre measure.

 

I can find nothing in the Act to support that view and would be happy to be guided to anything that does. The Act defines measurements of volume as:-

 

 

Part III Measurement of Volume

Metric units

CUBIC METRE = a volume equal to that of a cube each edge of which measures one metre.

Cubic decimetre = 1/1000 cubic metre.

Cubic centimetre = 1/1000 cubic decimetre.

Hectolitre = 100 litres.

LITRE = a cubic decimetre.

Decilitre = 1/10 litre.

Centilitre = 1/100 litre.

Millilitre = 1/1000 litre.

 

A cubic metre is thus an approved measure under the Act and there is an inference that the volume can be calculated rather than measured. It would appear that a tape measure should suffice as a piece of "suitable equipement"

 

I think I would be tempted to ask PKC what constitutes "suitable equipment to measure the volume".

 

Where we are on less solid ground is that we are selling in "loose" as opposed to solid cubic metres but so long as that is made clear I see no contravention of the Act which can be summarised as requiring that goods sold at retail are accurately described as to quantity.

 

There have also been statements that it is an offence to supply more than stated - this is not included in the specific offences listed in the Act but the following paragraph is:-

 

36 Excess due to precautions.

 

In any proceedings for an offence under this Part of this Act or any instrument made under this Part, being an offence in respect of any excess in the quantity of any goods, it shall be a defence for the person charged to prove that the excess was attributable to the taking of measures reasonably necessary in order to avoid the commission of an offence in respect of a deficiency in those or other goods.

 

The whole thing looks as if some jobsworth in PKC has a stiffy for firewood sellers

http://www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=17720&p=0

 

Cheers

mac

[BARNSLEY BOB]

what is this suitable equipment, and where does one obtain it? He does not say.

 

 

 

as i said earlier

 

all set out in the hetas woodsure handbook.

[briquette_seller]

as i said earlier

 

all set out in the hetas woodsure handbook.

 

tonne builders bags?

[skyhuck]

tonne builders bags?

 

No, a "load"

[TRADITIONAL LOGGERS]

Most bulk bags are classed as single use (Lifting Regulations) Volume is difficult as could be loose load / stacked load. 14 days to return is ridiculous! One would have to count all the pieces.

[TRADITIONAL LOGGERS]

30 Years experience of doing firewood is most people that purchase are leisure operators (not main source of heating) and purchase a single cm3 so how about having a seasoned stack in a barn and hire an unbraked single axle trailer which takes a cube? Then no distance selling regulations and no tacho with business use.

[treequip]

Most bulk bags are classed as single use (Lifting Regulations) .

 

 

To go again they just need an inspection

[Alycidon]

30 Years experience of doing firewood is most people that purchase are leisure operators (not main source of heating) and purchase a single cm3 so how about having a seasoned stack in a barn and hire an unbraked single axle trailer which takes a cube? Then no distance selling regulations and no tacho with business use.

 

If your max loaded train weight is over 3.5 tonnes then tacho is needed. Small car and trailer as described should be ok but big car or a big 4x4 then you may be in trouble.

 

A

[aspenarb]

it's also what scales do you use if you want to go down the weight route, how often do they come and inspect them to see they are accurate the few people I have spoken too that used to do coal said pain in the backside.

 

One of the trucks in the yard has weighing equipment built in ( ex council). It has an out of date calibration cert stuck on it so its feasible the weighing could be done on delivery with a weight ticket.

 

Bob