somerset floods

[eggsarascal]

eggsarascal

 

Please take time to go on " the farming forum" site and read the various threads on the Somerset levels. From the detailed posts you will come to realise that the flooding had already started prior to the new year with only average rainfall. Dig a little deeper and it becomes well documented a change in EA policy since 2007 to keep the water levels artificially high in the winter for environmental reasons therefore reducing the winter flood capacity of the levels which has been compounded by the lack of dredging and maintenance of the sluices.

 

John.

 

Having worked in the water industry for many years, maintaining everything from surface water sewers to dredging rivers and most things in between i don't think I need to go on a forum where the majority of answers to questions about planning and the likes is JFDI!

 

I'll stick with the facts. Dredging the rivers on the levels won't stop them flooding.

[ShooTa]

Egg - i believe you may have missed the point somewhat

we are not saying it would have stopped the flooding - we are however saying that HAD the dredging and ditch clearance happened that the flooding would have been far less of an issue - prior to Christmas there was flooding - this minimal flooding would have very likely not happened had the maintenance occurred, the water would have moved off the levels at a faster rate.

- and thus the current flooding which all of the recent rainfall has compounded on top of the pre-Christmas lot would be a fair amount lower in height - and we would'nt see so many farms land and houses being innundated.

 

as an aside - a farmer who re-instated a ditch running along side a 500 year old woodland track was fined for clearing said ditch - that's when the EA has gone nuts - its akin to the binmen when they go on strike - the rubbish builds up and gets in the way and causes issues. clear it on a schedule and all works well. (ok not the greatest example)

[corylus]

Wheres the bloody RSPCA when they are needed to help the farmers,if horses or dogs were at risk they would be chucking resources at the situation.

RSPCA has millions in the kitty to help,next thing you know they will be trying to prosecute farmers on crazy welfare charges.

 

Spending hundreds of thousands of pounds in exercising their political agenda.

[eggsarascal]

Egg - i believe you may have missed the point somewhat

we are not saying it would have stopped the flooding - we are however saying that HAD the dredging and ditch clearance happened that the flooding would have been far less of an issue - prior to Christmas there was flooding - this minimal flooding would have very likely not happened had the maintenance occurred, the water would have moved off the levels at a faster rate.

- and thus the current flooding which all of the recent rainfall has compounded on top of the pre-Christmas lot would be a fair amount lower in height - and we would'nt see so many farms land and houses being innundated.

 

as an aside - a farmer who re-instated a ditch running along side a 500 year old woodland track was fined for clearing said ditch - that's when the EA has gone nuts - its akin to the binmen when they go on strike - the rubbish builds up and gets in the way and causes issues. clear it on a schedule and all works well. (ok not the greatest example)

 

How deep are you going to dredge the rivers? The point being they are tidal. If you dredge them too deep you let the Bristol Channel in, hence flooding from sea water. It's been said before in this thread it's the shear amount of rain fall that as caused the problem. I was down at Jon's place two weeks before Christmas, it was pouring with rain then and it ain't stopped since.

 

The way to stop the rivers becoming flooded is to hold the water back until the level of the river drops then you let the water that as been held back into the river. That's why many, many years ago we came up with the idea of sacrificing land. We call this land flood plains. And that's what the levels are.Flood plains!

 

The Government are now going to make a token gesture and dredge the rivers. This will as you say help somewhat. But it won't stop the same thing happening again should we have the same amount of rainfall. The rivers that run through the fens are dredged all the time. Yet when we have prolonged rainfall the same villages still get flooded. Proof for me that dredging rivers does not stop low lying land from flooding.

[openspaceman]

eggsarascal

 

Please take time to go on " the farming forum" site and read the various threads on the Somerset levels. From the detailed posts you will come to realise that the flooding had already started prior to the new year with only average rainfall. Dig a little deeper and it becomes well documented a change in EA policy since 2007 to keep the water levels artificially high in the winter for environmental reasons therefore reducing the winter flood capacity of the levels which has been compounded by the lack of dredging and maintenance of the sluices.

 

I couldn't register on that forum so stopped reading it years back.

 

The policy change was when NRA got merged with other statutory bodies in 1996 and simultaneously the budget was cut. The EA became a first steps agency and was supposed to become self funding. At this stage there became a policy only to defend housing and to abandon agriculture. EA did not get a mandate to govern the drainage boards.

 

As I understand it the drainage boards were locally controlled and funded by agriculture and LAs and the levels were always pumped (not 24/7 but at low tide as otherwise the rivers could not cope). This was because agriculture was considered strategic after the 14-18 war and drainage and pumping allowed better cropping.

 

Along with other government agencies EA have suffered massive cuts and this has lead to decisions to "manage retreat" from low property density areas. The peer who chairs EA put up such a poor PR performance because he was with the PM, probably is a tory himself, and could not politically lay the blaim on a government decision made before such inclement weather was foreseeable.

 

There are EA personnel who are on call out and working hard to alleviate the situation and severely depressed and to cap it the pumps have been left on 24/7 as a publicity exercise as during high tides they are just recirculating water.

[daveindales]

Take a look at somerset levels in Wikipedia. This gives a good account of the levels, it's geology, past flooding and attempts to control the water

[Graham]

Whilst what is happening in Somerset and elsewhere can & could be classed as anything from tragic to catastrophic, I fail to understand why so many posters seem to, by default, blame unerringly the Government.

 

Whilst the Government/Environment Agency could have (should have!) done more to mitigate some of the problems currently being experienced, let us not lose sight of what the real problem is.

 

Rain.

 

Rain, rain, rain, and more rain! Then, now, and for the rest of this month by the looks of things.

 

The government (of any colour, and at anytime) can be blamed for a lot of injustices in this country, but the weather is natural phenomenon that, at least the last time I looked, cannot be controlled or engineered by any mere mortal organisation.

 

Short of the Environment Agency dredging rivers to almost half the depth of the Grand Canyon, the sheer volume of rain that the South West and elsewhere has received since mid-December, has been unprecedented and record breaking with Atlantic storms hitting the Western side of the country almost every 4/5 days in that time, (by Monday the South Western and Western parts of the country will actually have been hit by 3 major Atlantic storms in a week!)

 

The government does not control the weather. Some inter governmental agencies might have done more sooner, but the result would still have been the same. Even if rivers were more regularly dredged, the removal of a couple of feet of mud would still have not prevented the dramatic flooding that we are currently witnessing, given that it has rained, and rained, for days, weeks, months on end. You only need to look at other threads on AT about tips & ideas for keeping dry whilst trying to work in the current British weather. It been raining consistently everywhere around the country, regrettably, the highest amount of rainfall has fallen in the South West, consequently this region has suffered, with flood waters barely moving for weeks on end, because it hasn't stopped raining for long enough for the flood waters to recede.

 

You cannot blame the government for the rain, or how frequently it falls consistently in the same area. You could argue that this is a foretaste of climate change. There, the culprit is easily identifiable. Its humankind. As long as populations grow, then so will the causes of climate change, if you were to blame anybody then it is all of us, the 7 billion plus (and counting) inhabitants of this tiny little planet in the middle of a barren universe.

 

Cause and effect, we shall all reap what we sow. Flooding in Somerset, tragedy, but not the Governments fault, its the weather stupid, and that is probably the responsibility if not the controllability of us all!

 

Well said. No amount of dredging will move water uphill. It's low lying, fertile land but it's going to flood when we have prolonged rain.

[Daniël Bos]

What is this silt?

Any chance it's soil erosion from bad farming practices?

 

The Rhine, one of three major rivers that flow through the Netherlands (you know, that country that has a major portion of land below sea level...), has a catchment area that is a fair bit bigger than the land mass of England and Wales combined.

 

Perhaps there are lessons to be learned?

[eggsarascal]

Just had Jon on via face time (video link). He's down on the levels as I type. He's doing his bit to help out. Top bloke, that Jon.

 

It looks absolutely terrible down there.

 

Well done Jon, me old mucker.

[eggsarascal]

Jon has asked, can any one nearby with woodchip get it to the king Alfred public house, burrowbridge, TA7 0RB, they are in need.

 

Hard standing to tip on is available, any help much appreciated.