Lolering your own gear

[treequip]

Who would the law refer to if there was ever an incident, it would be the HSE

 

The law wont "refer" to the HSE. The HSEuses powers granted to it under statute law to bring prossecutions

[treequip]

Does any one know of any accidents caused by kit failure???

 

 

 

Yes Dave, twice.

 

I saw a bulk bag full of 2 pound sized stones rip and spill its contents 4 floors down to the roadside, it caused carnage, lots of property damage and a couple of people "pebble dashed" by splintered stone.

 

I saw (well the results of) a bundle of rebar lifted and spill its contents skewering one poor bugger to the ground

 

Clearly this isn’t "ARB" but it was a lifting operation and the LO in LOLER is Lifting Operations

 

Once again we are just a tiny part of a much bigger thing and as an industry we need to accept that rather than resenting it as an intrusion.

[Craig Johnson]

if a crash car into a tree because of bad driving they would want to see driving ticket, MOT(car saftey inspecton) and insurance which you would hope the driver has otherwise theres a heap of **** going to fall on them, when the car knocked you out of the tree and you fell on the bonet, they will want to see your climbig ticket, LOLER ( gear saftey inspection) and insurance. see where i'm coming from?

sure you can get away without but if the **** ever hit the fan, i know that your going to need plenty of paper to keep it clean.

 

familiarity breads contempt and fresh eyes will see what you dont and write it down on some paper....

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

So why are people paying for gear to be loler'd??

 

Sorry, haven't got time to go thru all other posts so apologies if repeated.

 

'Independent 3rd party' assurance, insurance companies like/expect it, 'peace of mind', sometimes a contractual requirement.

 

If you are considering doing this yourself you need to be very careful and ensure your inspection is to the same standard as one undertaken by a person having done, and succesfuly completed, the level 4 award in 'thorough examination of arb equipment' and be able to demonstrate / justify how / why.

 

Also you are very well advised to have a record of inspection and that it follow the guidance in the LOLER ACOP.

 

Bearing all that in mind is it not worth engaging an inspector who would/should do this for you whilst you better spend your time doing something else?

 

Just my views.

 

Cheers all..

Paul

[Jspiteri]

Sorry, haven't got time to go thru all other posts so apologies if repeated.

 

'Independent 3rd party' assurance, insurance companies like/expect it, 'peace of mind', sometimes a contractual requirement.

 

If you are considering doing this yourself you need to be very careful and ensure your inspection is to the same standard as one undertaken by a person having done, and succesfuly completed, the level 4 award in 'thorough examination of arb equipment' and be able to demonstrate / justify how / why.

 

Also you are very well advised to have a record of inspection and that it follow the guidance in the LOLER ACOP.

 

Bearing all that in mind is it not worth engaging an inspector who would/should do this for you whilst you better spend your time doing something else?

 

Just my views.

 

Cheers all..

Paul

 

Paul

 

It only say competent on the HSE guidelines. It doesn't say Level 4, the only think the "competent" person requires is should have enough appropriate practical and theoretical knowledge and experience of the lifting equipment so that they can detect defects or weaknesses, and assess how important they are in relation to the safety and continued use of the equipment; this is straight from the HSE website.

[skyhuck]

if a crash car into a tree because of bad driving they would want to see driving ticket, MOT(car saftey inspecton) and insurance which you would hope the driver has otherwise theres a heap of **** going to fall on them, when the car knocked you out of the tree and you fell on the bonet, they will want to see your climbig ticket, LOLER ( gear saftey inspection) and insurance. see where i'm coming from?

sure you can get away without but if the **** ever hit the fan, i know that your going to need plenty of paper to keep it clean.

 

.

 

IME this is not the case, I have been in motor accident and never been asked for licence or MOT.

 

The things you mention are "legal" requirements, for all cars on the road, I'm not sure you can argue that "LOLER" is quite the same.

 

I think for your insurance to get out of a claim the accident would need to be a direct result of equipment failure and that equipment not having been LOLER'd, plus LOLER being a requirement of your insurer, also I think any third party claim would be paid, as is the case with drink drivers.

 

We hear a grate deal about insures dodging claims, but no one ever posts any links to actual cases of this happening

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Paul

 

It only say competent on the HSE guidelines. It doesn't say Level 4, the only think the "competent" person requires is should have enough appropriate practical and theoretical knowledge and experience of the lifting equipment so that they can detect defects or weaknesses, and assess how important they are in relation to the safety and continued use of the equipment; this is straight from the HSE website.

 

 

Hi there,

 

I acknowledge that but in the event of an incident or accident etc. HSE or the courts would doubtless look to see if there is an industry standard, i.e. the level 4 award (NPTC), and use that as a benchmark in determining if what you were doing acheived an equivalnet level of control etc. etc.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[woody paul]

A competent person is what. A person with 30 years I'm tree work or a young whipper snapper with all the paper work out of collage and practial no how. You decide.

[TKF]

In addition to the City & Guilds (NPTC) option, Lantra Awards recently released a Level 4 Award in 'Through Examination of Arboricultural Lifting Equipment'. The Lantra course is available as Integrated Training and Assessment.

 

Some of their course info attached.

TKF Lantra LOLER qualification.pdf

TKF Lantra LOLER Training.pdf

[Rupe]

if this were to be the case, kit would never fail a Loler inspection by a certificated Loler inspector...yet it does.

Also, if the climbers etc were so good at their inspections, why was there ever a need for a certificated Inspector at all? Because people were not checking kit properly and it was failing in use.

If you inspected your colleagues kit, as a fellow climber, and he fell and was permanently disabled, it went to court, how long would your reasoning stand up under cross examination?

 

Andy. Loler wasnt brought in for tree work, it wasnt brought in because tree workers needed it or because they wernt checking kit, it was brought in for all work at height and tree work is included in that.

 

So we are complying with a policy for all work at height, not specifically for tree work and not because we particularly need it.

 

If you can check you own gear and never have an accident then you must be doing ok, but HSE wants to see records of those inspection and so getting a loler inspector in a ONE way of doing it, but most inspectors seem to think they are some kind of authority and end up confiscating kit or destroying it needlessly.