Chainsaw refresher course, who should foot the bill?

[likeitorlumpit]

A 3 day course to assess your competence for a regular user of chainsaws seems a bit unnecessary. I can tell quite quickly whether someone can be trusted with a chainsaw. I like to hear the chainbreak working regularly. See attitude to PPE. See how sharp they keep the saw. Foot positioning when cutting on the ground. Accuracy of felling and seeing that they haven't fallen into 'lazy' ways. Pretty much sums it up.

Surely that could be done in a day for a small group. Say £100 each.

My tickets were gained in about 1990. Should I be re assessed?

[skyhuck]

So you don't instruct First aid refresher training then,

You wont need it if people do their chainsaw refresher training,

 

To compare NPTC units with First aid training is nonsense, you are likely to have not used your FA training from one year to the next, so refreshing is vital, however if your cutting/climbing day in day out, your hardly going to forget it.

[treequip]

now turn it round the other way, The boss has 3 people who need to go on the course Each person £250 plus. Soon to add up plus they will ask for the days pay and fuel to get there too so even more costs. who on here would fork out that amount just to put some guys in for the test. If they wanner stay with the company or in the job they should pay for it them self's its there lively hood. Now if the boss has a fantastic relationship with the person then pay half, If not the person could get the training show the finger. If you a employee its want want want. If you the boss you don't wanner have to spend money that you don't need to This needs to be seen from both views.

 

If you self employed your paying for it your self end of.

 

Thats a positively Dickesnsian scenario.

 

An employer should be aware of ongoing costs such as PPE and training and factor them into overheads.

 

An employer has a duty to provide adequate PPE and training, if the employers client requires the training why should the employee, who has nothing to gain by it foot that cost?

[Spruce Pirate]

Thats a positively Dickesnsian scenario.

 

An employer should be aware of ongoing costs such as PPE and training and factor them into overheads.

 

Agreed. And the same applies to the self-employed.

 

None of us know everything, a day's refresher to brush up on skills, highlight bad habits, inform of newer techniques etc is no bad thing. On the other hand 3 days loss of production plus associated costs seems excesive. If the instructor / assessor is competent they should be able to do this within a day, if there are any areas of specific concern then perhaps there could be a recommendation for further training.

 

The cost should be bourne by the client at the end of the day, incorporated into overall rates.

[Andy Collins]

All of the companies I have subbed to over the years have paid for any additional courses required as and when, even when I've offered to pay for it, and they also paid the day rate on the training days.

All training for employees is 100% the responsibility of the employer, and for any employer to try to wheedle his way out of paying would flag him up as the type that probably would forget to pay your wages, deduct your tax and NI, and welch on other responsibilities. These people do exist.

[MattyF]

Agree with Andy .... I was told by an assessor recently I needed to do a refresher ... I ask for a price... Then I looked out the window at his shiny kit laden 4x4 and then walked out The door.If they came out on site ticked some boxes and then made an assement there and then you need refreshing then I would be happy too.. But not spending can not afford to and will not spend money on some thing that I am 10 times more competent than when I was giving the ticket in the first place to line some one else's pockets!

[DN22 Gardening]

Going to the smaller end of the scale.

 

How is it possible for me to compete with the travelling brigade when, on top of all my other costs, i'll have to spend a couple of grand every 5 years to put me and my lads through a refresher.

 

I've just had one of my lads leave to set up on his own, after adding up the training he's had over the last 4 years comes to just shy of £5000. How's a small business supposed to 'factor into costs' this ???

I might be tempted if a provider were to say to me "i'll come on such and such date, it'll take a day, i can assess so many people and it'll be so much.

 

I don't know the costs involved in running a training agency, but on the last course i was on (CSCS SSSTC ) there were 22 people paying approx. £750 each for two days in a hotel conference room, and ok, lunch was provided, but by my reckoning thats still £15K for two days work, providing a powerpoint presentation, and a little booklet on toolbox talks !!!! there's got to be some profit in that

 

As an employer, its MY duty to ensure my staff are competent, which they are.

ALL my staff who are employed on sites where saws are likely to be used have full chainsaw PPE (including boots ) even the brash draggers who don't touch the saws.

 

I've worked with some people who you wouldn't trust with a silky, never mind a chain saw. Especially on the rail, which, 7 or 8 years ago was flooded by people in it for the quick cash.

 

On the subject of Ariel rescue, i think a 5 year assessment might be a good thing.

One days assessment, showing new techniques, kit, etc, followed by further training IF required.

Been climbing far toooo long now and never (thankfully) had to use it, but would like to think my training would kick in in the event

[mikecotterill]

To be honest I think aerial rescue should be a yearly thing, but doubt it'll come in.

[Pete Mctree]

The issue of updates will only be relevant post accident or incident. The investigators (either insurance , HSE or both) will have plenty to say if they are not in place.

It can easily be done by either a days training or achievement of further units. Not bad every 5 years compared to a lot of industries

[Minotaur]

So you don't instruct First aid refresher training then,

You wont need it if people do their chainsaw refresher training,

 

Come on Gollum, I made the point that regular chainsaw users should not have to refresh/re-assess, but comparing that to First Aid re-fresher courses is ridiculous! How many people actually get their FA from one year to the next?

 

However, I would agree, that Aerial Rescue should be re-trained/re-assessed on a regular basis - annually or at least one every three years. Just goes to show that many of the so called Training and Assessment that are enforced on people are a pointless waste of time and money.