Whats Wrong With the Current System.

[Arbocop]

well chaps and chapesses, for my sins i have been invite to an AFAG meeting in a couple of weeks that is to focus on where the current systems for training for practical arb & forestry fails the industries ( if it does at all???)

 

and also what can be done to address any short falls in the system. Now i know that this thread has gone round in several shapes and sizes befor but i wopuld really like your input on this???

 

not just i hate NPTC or LANTRA Sucks, or even there are batter ways...... what i want to know is if you do feel that way what needs to change or what would make it better

 

lets have the debate and ill let you know how things go,

 

if you wish to reply annomosley then my work e mail is below or you can call me at BTS group in the training department.

 

thanks for you help

 

regards

[Arbocop]

come on folks

 

im genuinley interested, i realy would like to know your opinion on how the vocational training such as NPTC certs may be bettered to serve people in the industry, no matter how radical

 

even if you think we should do away with them all together

 

your feed back really will go to the AFAG group for consultation

 

so dont be shy

 

let me know

[Peter]

Some sort of progression in training and experience would be good. Newcomers to the industry are sold nptcs on the basis that they are all you need, whereas employers know that they are worthless on their own.

How many newbies with cs30 cant sharpen a saw to save their lives?

Some way of logging hours of actual working time felling or climbing would be useful, but if we go down that route i fear we would drown in paperwork.

At the moment we have a system where a new climber could get cs39, then do a dismantling course and think they are fully competent to do massive takedowns. That cant be right can it?

[Amelanchier]

Even better Peter, get yourself cs31 and the relevant IPAF ticket and you're qualified to hack stuff from a 26m platform!!!

[Tom D]

I hear that they are considering amalgamating medium and large trees, this is a very good idea, why you need three different felling exams is beyond me. I actually think that there should be a specialist groundsmans ticket as not all groundies are aspiring climbers, it should cover felling, lowering and setting up rigging gear etc.

 

Finally I think there should be a "Tree surgeon" ticket which would be awarded to anyone with the basic units plus 39,40 and 41. This is because at the moment you can do basic chainsaw and then advertise as a tree surgeon and put NPTC Qualified on all your signwriting etc. You should only be able to do this if you have the full complement of relevant tickets.

This is more important than anything else really, as the public are aware of the term "tree surgeon" this could be used to police the whole industry. By restricting the use of this term many more people would take up training, this would be far more sucessful than any AAAC or ISA scheme as it would have far more public awareness.

[MattyF]

Personally i think the results so far speak for them selves i have worked with people who have every ticket going and they are usless and hold job positions in large companys responcable for other people that quite frankly should not be.....ironically some of the best climbers ive seen never had any nptcs at all.

i do feel the rules where made by people though who quite frankly could not cut a 9-5 doing this job and come up with hoops for people that can to jump through and grab money off.

[Pete Mctree]

The ticket is one of competance not excellance. It is easy to critisise, but any other more comprehensive system would incur greater costs, with an undoubted outcry from those forced to pay for it.

 

One citisism is that of updates- there is an obvious need to keep best practice current- well how about publications of updated methods through the arb magazines, or through e-mails etc. It is too easy to get isolated in this industry and still be expected to meet current and uptodate legislation and modes of work. A perfect example is the thread about backing-up ascenders, was the individual hurt aware that it was a potential hazard?

[Leyburn Lad]

where do you start by answering this question , all the posts so far are relevant to the industry problems ,a log book signed by your employer or who ever you are subying to would be a start, plus continuos mentoring after the assesments, I know not as easy as said, but at least if say it was treat like the heavy plant driving ticket and there was nothing logged against a relevant dicipline for say over 12months then you would have to apply for a refresher.

[Mr Ed]

The FMOC system is quite good, where a 'provisional' licence is issued, enabaling on the job training to be undertaken.

Maybe bring in something similar for chainsaws?

[Mike Hill]

More emphasis on sharpening chainsaws,that skill is elementary to the correct functioning of the primary tool in Treecare.

 

Could the first part be a "display of knowleged of sharpening" and "carry out sharpening in a production situatition" then the final "tick" be the submission of a couple of spent chains?

 

I realise this might be impractical given how easy it might be to submit chains,but I am constantly dismayed at new graduates who can't sharpen and maintain a bloody chainsaw.COME ON!

 

Rant over