Housing Crisis - a novel idea

[Bolt]

[petercb]

2 hours ago, Steven P said:

tax profits on any sale within 5 years of purchase to deter empty investment properties

They already do it's called Capital Gains Tax. So being cynical maybe the government are quite happy to drive private landlords out of the sector and sell up, nice little tax income for them.

Perhaps if everyone stopped bashing private landlords and focussed on the government/councils providing social housing to meet the need whether it be prefab or whatever, the lack of which is the real underlying problem, then a lot of the pressure on house prices/rent levels might reduce.

[Stere]

Council house building leading to  gas chambers is  abit of a leap.

 

Also socialism definition means different things to different people  -the  nordic model etc as an example but it often seems to taken as no different from communism.

 

 

 

 

[GarethM]

16 minutes ago, Stere said:

Council house building leading to  gas chambers is  abit of a leap.

 

Also socialism definition means different things to different people  -the  nordic model etc as an example but it often seems to taken as no different from communism.

You're going down the inevitable and well trodden path of the, You've not tried true socialism argument.

Edited December 3, 2023 by GarethM

[Stere]

What we already had some  under both  labour govs & tory ones until thatcher plus with   new labour & the UK went  to the right - reganomics USA style etc....

 

 

[GarethM]

Problem is you're just wanting to fiddle around the edges and not solve the actual problems which have already been highlighted mainly immigration & investment properties.

 

I would also say allowing certain faiths to not pay stamp duty, as well as investment companies aren't helping either.

[doobin]

39 minutes ago, Stere said:

Council house building leading to  gas chambers is  abit of a leap.

 

Also socialism definition means different things to different people  -the  nordic model etc as an example but it often seems to taken as no different from communism.

 

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, GarethM said:

You're going down the inevitable and we'll trodden path of the, You've not tried true socialism argument.

 Council housing built en mass in the 50s (a lot of it for returning veterans- home fit for here’s etc) set the stage for one of the longest periods of stability this country has known. 
 

Like it or not, we live in a society. @AHPPlikes to espouse anarchy as a suitable soloution, but let’s be realistic. The government dissolves- unless you band together with other like minded folk then you are toast. So you team up with others, and agree to their rules. Walking Dead, anyone? Hey presto, you’re in a society again. So that argument is just as utopian bullshit as the idea of socialist utopia. As a nod to this though, I could get on board with the idea of extreme devolution, and free movement for those originally in the union between devolved states to find one that best fits their ideals. I don’t see the United States lasting in its current form, the Southern states are just too different and will secede. 
 

Unbridled capitalism doesn’t work either. Vested interest always start to take over and subjugate the weaker- and by weaker, that can just be those who were born a few years too late (see housing crisis. If you are living in a council house now, what chance do you think your children have?) This model of passing down ‘housing wealth’ to help your children buy their first house isn’t good for society as a whole, it leads to a schism between the haves and have nots. That’s not ‘socialist bullshit’- it’s reality. Take it to its logical conclusion and in the absence of alternative governance (most likely, we are at a tipping point now in terms of voters with/without housing), you’re either at French Revolution or more likely a dystopian sci fi scenario. 

I think the only way this can work is with the whole country pulling in the national interest. Obviously some hard choices have to be made, immigration is the obvious one for me. Cut it totally. You’ll never hear a ‘stereotypical’ socialist say that- in their utopia this country can support everyone. Well, it can’t. We should be looking to maximise quality of life for those already here. 
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by doobin

[Mike Hill]

I would chuck out all the darkies and bring back national service as well as free milk for children. 

[Steven P]

Immigration.. when it comes to that... The UK population is an aging population, more people than ever retiring and living longer, the burden on the 'natives' to care for them will increase. The UK population (the 'natives') is also a declining population, few people born than die, in a few years fewer and fewer young people supporting more and more old people. The pensions model that did work needs readjusting else pensioners will get nothing worthwhile... and so we need immigrants to feed into the work and tax system to keep the pension system alive.. anyway, point of this is that it is all an integrated system, change one part radically and another will be greatly affected too.

 

Going back to a recurring theme of mine, the houses that they are building now, the ones that makes the builders lots of profit, are not the ones that are needed, but they are the one needed by the powerful band of voters..... My gran doesn't want to live in a 5 bedroom executive home and an acre of grass to cut, but is tied up in one cause there is nothing to move into. My children want to buy a property but can't afford a new build executive home, and what there are prices increase till they can't afford anything. Both ends of the scale need something smaller, with transport links, local shops, community facilities, perhaps a church but as far as I see none of that is being built and the market stagnates. To move you have to offer more than the other guys, prices rise.

 

 

[sime42]

2 hours ago, Stere said:

Council house building leading to  gas chambers is  abit of a leap.

 

Also socialism definition means different things to different people  -the  nordic model etc as an example but it often seems to taken as no different from communism.

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless of how people want to define it, the nordic model seems to work. Those countries consistently appear in the top ranks of the various surveys that are done every year; happiness/well-being/quality of life/health/blah blah blah. Equality is key, they also tend to be very equal societies, I'd suggest that is what leads all the aforementioned positive metrics. We on the other hand in the UK are one of the most unequal countries in the world, second only to the US, in the so called developed world. With the gap between obscenely rich and poor growing ever wider, especially rapidly over the last 13 years or so. Go figure.

 

Coming back to housing - I wonder how the house building industry and housing market is set up in the Nordic countries. I don't know, but I'm guessing they don't have a monopoly of just three big, bloated private companies like we have here. Pretty sure new developments will be more people/community/planet friendly as well in terms of green space, flood mitigation measures, not car centric, (cycle and pedestrian infrastructure), easily accessible community amenities, shops and all that good stuff.