Energy Bills

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Muddy42 said:

I was only considering the cost of electricity and I was probably using a graphic from before the recent rises but here it is

 

 

[Mesterh]

1 hour ago, Muddy42 said:

Remember there are two different markets here - Energy Supply and Energy Production (some companies are linked though).  Energy Producers dig it out of the ground, burn stuff or harness wind and solar to make energy.  Energy Suppliers rent space on the various grids to supply it to the end customer.  In the above diagram, running costs includes the cost of renting the pipes and wires from national grid.

 

There are six massive energy suppliers that compete by trying to lower their price for customers.  Yes I suppose they could be price setting, but this is illegal and they risk the companies being shut down and jail sentences for the executives. I seriously doubt that (any) incompetent government could run these companies more efficiently.  We haven't really had nationalized industry since the 1960s, the government and civil service simply don't have the skills or capability anymore. It would be a mess.

 

Energy Production is a different matter.  The Energy Producers, BT/Shell etc. or Equinor (owned by the Norwegian government) are making a fortune because their is a European shortage of gas and prices have been driven high by market forces. European countries are bidding up the price of gas as they all want to boost their reserves of gas.  Maybe Equinor can be persuaded to give up profits and supply gas at the cost of production?  The UK government will probably impose a windfall tax on BT/Shell.  This is not that simple because not all of their operations are in the UK, plus business hate sudden changes in tax and they could simply relocate operations elsewhere. 

 

 

Am I right in saying that the price of electricity produced by solar, wind, hydro nuclear etc increases inline with electricity produced by gas? If so then those energy companies that aren't affected by the gas price increase must be making a fortune.

[Muddy42]

39 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

I was only considering the cost of electricity and I was probably using a graphic from before the recent rises but here it is

 

 

Yup, wholesale costs have risen a lot.

 

1 minute ago, Mesterh said:

Am I right in saying that the price of electricity produced by solar, wind, hydro nuclear etc increases inline with electricity produced by gas? If so then those energy companies that aren't affected by the gas price increase must be making a fortune.

That's my understanding, yes.  In the UK we have one wholesale price, some countries have more than one due to bottlenecks in infrastructure or production.

[GarethM]

Plus the subsidies they also get, makes them even more money

[openspaceman]

26 minutes ago, Mesterh said:

Am I right in saying that the price of electricity produced by solar, wind, hydro nuclear etc increases inline with electricity produced by gas? If so then those energy companies that aren't affected by the gas price increase must be making a fortune.

Yes and frankly I don't mind if that means their profits go toward providing more renewables, I'm not that sanguine about new nuclear as I think the money would be better spent on conservation and renewables infrastructure.

 

Currently gas is providing nearly 50% of our electricity with wind and nuclear at about 15% the rest being made up of solar (not easily measured but up to 12%), hydro and coal.

 

As I have produced 100% of my electricity since mid March and expect to continue to do so till mid October I do not understand why it does not feature in more homes.

[Squaredy]

4 hours ago, openspaceman said:

As I have produced 100% of my electricity since mid March and expect to continue to do so till mid October I do not understand why it does not feature in more homes.

My local solar panel fitting firm are booked up solid for two years with new installations, so I guess more and more people are turning to self generation.  I think maybe if the government are going to pump billions into the whole energy crisis maybe some of it should be to encourage more local generation.

[matt padden]

With your own panels I assume you benefit from the cost but are still susceptible to any power outages as you're not independent from the grid?

[Squaredy]

8 hours ago, GarethM said:

A question comes to mind, practically every council house has solar panels especially in my neck of the woods. Does the tenant benefit in any way from these, as I've seen horror stories about they're bills being even worse after they were fitted.

Yes the tenant gets free electricity when they are generating I believe.  So if they are able and willing to shift a lot of their energy usage to daytime the benefit during 8 or 9 months of the year could be significant.  The owner of the panels of course gets all the other benefit - i.e. feed in tariffs etc.

[Johnsond]

4 hours ago, Mesterh said:

Am I right in saying that the price of electricity produced by solar, wind, hydro nuclear etc increases inline with electricity produced by gas? If so then those energy companies that aren't affected by the gas price increase must be making a fortune.

There was an excellent program on bbc24 at about 0300 last night in regards the profits being made by the nuclear and renewables providers ( EDF in particular have benefited hugely, the fact it’s a French owned company is even worse but I guess that’s capitalism) indeed they are all tied to the price of gas, I’m not surprised it was on in the early hours as quite frankly it was staggering the profits being made and how the system is loaded in favour of the companies producing the energy. How or why this is not making daily headlines and causing outrage I do not know. People seem more bothered about utter trivialities rather than the real reason behind the rises. 

[difflock]

Fornicate that for a mismanaged game of energy producing soldiers!

And "some" folk STILL want to nationalise energy production!

FF'sS!

Edited September 7, 2022 by difflock