Now There’s A Suprise...Not

[Mark J]

50 minutes ago, scotspine1 said:

 

Abandon the sinking ship that is capitalism. 

 

Capitalism is destroying the natural world and if we continue at current economic growth globally it will cause civilisational and ecological collapse and with it hardships beyond the imagination. If you think the Covid crisis is bad, wait for the resource wars and mass famines caused by ecological collapse. 

 

Anyone promoting the benefits of capitalism now is in complete denial of the grave situation the human race is facing in the near future. 

 

Capitalism only benefits the elite. An elite moving ever further away from the masses. 

 

Point out the facts and not opinions mate.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Mark J

[Paul Cleaver]

1 hour ago, scotspine1 said:

 

Abandon the sinking ship that is capitalism. 

 

Implement forced economic slow down, followed by de-growth - an incremental deconstruction of capitalism especially it's insidious requirement for mass immigration (cheap labour/new consumers). 

 

Global de-population programs. Current population forecast based on birthrate patterns for 2100 is 11 billion people - unsustainable - everyone knows this, only a fool would deny it. 

 

Capitalism is destroying the natural world and if we continue at current economic growth globally it will cause civilisational and ecological collapse and with it hardships beyond the imagination. If you think the Covid crisis is bad, wait for the resource wars and mass famines caused by ecological collapse. 

 

Anyone promoting the benefits of capitalism now is in complete denial of the grave situation the human race is facing in the near future. 

 

Capitalism only benefits the elite. An elite moving ever further away from the masses. 

 

 

 

.

the selfish gene

[Sutton]

6 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

No, I'm just a whiner, haven't progressed to problem solving yet

Don't get disheartened. Passion keeps the feeling alive.

The first chatbots translated "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" into russian thus: "the vodka is strong but the meat is off". My grand daughter's algorithm might put it: "The mood has momentum but consumerism curtails"

[Sutton]

6 hours ago, scotspine1 said:

Abandon the sinking ship that is capitalism.

Financial capitalism is like your step-mommy who says "I like what you want to do but keep me informed". State capitalism is like your nan who says "well, if that's what you want to do, but be careful". Are you sure, we are ready to leave home for good? Even Elon Musk doesn't know where he's headed?

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sutton
arthrtic fingers

[scotspine1]

 

1 hour ago, Sutton said:

Financial capitalism is like your step-mommy who says "I like what you want to do but keep me informed". State capitalism is like your nan who says "well, if that's what you want to do, but be careful". Are you sure, we are ready to leave home for good? Even Elon Musk doesn't know where he's headed?

 

We’re in the final days of late stage capitalism. We have to dismantle it before it collapses. 

 

Think of a nuclear reactor. Once it’s done it’s job and served it’s purpose you can’t just leave it to become decrepit otherwise you’ll end up with a Chernobyl type situation. 

 

 

 

. 

[the village idiot]

24 minutes ago, scotspine1 said:

 

 

We’re in the final days of late stage capitalism. We have to dismantle it before it collapses. 

 

Think of a nuclear reactor. Once it’s done it’s job and served it’s purpose you can’t just leave it to become decrepit otherwise you’ll end up with a Chernobyl type situation. 

 

 

 

. 

Yes, this is my feeling too (although admittedly I know bugger all about economics.)

 

I wonder whether a reconfiguration rather than a dismantling might be better? Capitalism does work pretty well as long as there are proper checks in place to stop things getting too top heavy. We haven't done too well in this department.

 

It's a delicate balance though. We could do with improving wealth distribution but we don't want to dis-incentivise innovation.

 

 

[trigger_andy]

1 hour ago, scotspine1 said:

 

 

We’re in the final days of late stage capitalism. We have to dismantle it before it collapses. 

 

Think of a nuclear reactor. Once it’s done it’s job and served it’s purpose you can’t just leave it to become decrepit otherwise you’ll end up with a Chernobyl type situation. 

 

 

 

. 

You're dreaming if you think thats ever gonna happen. Its naive wishful thinking. 

 

I'm not saying your completely wrong, a lot of the points you raised in your earlier post I tend to agree with, but man is simply too greedy to change his ways. Generally most former Communist Countries are now full swing Capitalists in all but name. These countries ie China, Russia etc are raping the world far more than the West is. Then add to that the likes of India and other vastly over populated hell holes and what we're doing is small change in comparison. 

 

So what model would you suggest Capitalism is replaced with? And it has to be a realistic one, not an idealistic one. 

[Sutton]

1 hour ago, scotspine1 said:

We have to dismantle it before it collapses.

If you mean, some kind of super-acceleration in stretching loans beyond all bounds of them ever being "serviced" again then given current UK household debt, "We" wont have to do anything. It'll do it itself. Some of us are thinking about new beginnings though

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sutton

[trigger_andy]

29 minutes ago, Big J said:

From the bit of research I've done, I really like the nordic capitalist model. Supportive of entrepreneurs and business, but very socialist in it's social mindset. The poor aren't really poor and the rich aren't that rich. I was looking at average salaries for lorry drivers in Sweden the other day (out of curiosity) and the average starting wage is £4k a month, rising to double that with 10-15 years experience. They place value on essential services (like transportation of goods) in a way that I don't think we do.

 

Truck Driver Average Salary in Sweden 2020 - The Complete Guide

WWW.SALARYEXPLORER.COM

---

 

 

Norway at least is very capitalist, but with a good welfare state. The Law of Jente is ever present in Scandinavia.

 

Law of Jante - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

I feel its somewhat of a rule of Envy but it does maintain somewhat of a balance. But to say there is not a disproportionate share of wealth is somewhat naive.  You just have to walk around Stavanger, Bergen or Oslo to see people living like Sardines in Flats almost next to multi Million Pound Water Front Houses. 

 

The Top 10 richest people in Norway are; 

John Fredriksen net worth $100 Billion Dollars.

Olav Thon net worth $6 Billion Dollars

Odd Reitan net worth $5 Billion Dollars

Stein Erik Hagen net worth $4.7 Billion Dollars

Johan H Andresen Jr net worth $3.2 Billion Dollars

Johan Johannson net worth $3.1 Billion Dollars

Andreas Halvorsen net worth $2.8 Billion Dollars

Arne Wilhelmsen net worth $2.4 Billion Dollars

Kjell Inge Rokke net worth $1.8 Billion Dollars

Petter Stordalen net worth $1.5 Billion Dollars.

 

Thats just the top 10! All Billionaires in a country with around population of under 6 Million. Hardly a socialist utopia. I dont think they have a socialist mindset, they just want and pay for a good welfare state. That does not make them Socialist. Wages vary greatly in Norway, I pay almost as much tax in Norway than I would in Scotland, but I get far more back out of the Norwegian System that in reality its far cheaper for me to pay tax in Norway than it is in the UK. 

 

But the small Nordic countries like Norway, Denmark and Sweden who pay if anything slightly more tax than we do in Scotland (Denmark pays more than Norway and Sweden) but have a much better Welfare state do so for a number of reasons, one obviously being the population size, the second is the populations mindset towards healthy eating and exercise. In the Uk, Scotland at least you can lead a Horse to water but clearly we cant make the people drink. 

 

Even the top 10 rich in Sweden is quite staggering;

 

Ingvar Kamprad. $42.5 Billion.

Stefan Persson. $25 Billion.

Birgit Rausing. $13 Billion.

Hans Rausing. $12.8 Billion.

Antonia Johnson. $8.5 Billion.

Melker Schorling. $5.5 Billion.

Jorn Rausing. $5.4 Billion.

Frederik Paulsen. $5.2 Billion.

Fin Rausen. $5.1 Billion

Kirsten Rausing. $5.1 Billion. 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by trigger_andy

[Mike Hill]

Business tax laws in Sweden are alot more favourable for a small business I beleive.

 

In 13 years  of living here full time I know of half a dozen small companies who have moved from Bergen to Sweden.

I can't ever remember meeting a single Swedish business owner here however.