The end of 'red diesel'?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

8 hours ago, openspaceman said:

 

Which is a logical development  and why petrol engined chippers may become more viable, having a lower capital cost and the difference in fuel cost will be less. Longevity of engines may be an issue though.

Also domestic heating will be excluded and therein lies the problem, whilst there are few domestic properties that use pressure jet  burners anyone that does will be able to have red delivered.

 

As I think we established horticulture includes work in domestic gardens (and I wonder if the current  position statement on allowing that roadside hedges and trees can be worked with agricultural tractors using red diesel will stay) we will have the problem that if you take your diesel powered machine to work at a commercial premises then you may not use red.

But as a policy, it falls apart at the “some of the biggest contributors to our air quality” point since (a) trains, aircraft and ships must be worse(?), and (b) (thinking heavy plant) there appears to be a firm drive towards infrastructure projects which demand heavy plant so their need remains, it’s just that they’ll be more expensive to operate.  It’d be interesting if some wag calculated the price uplift associated with fuel duty as relates to HS2 for example....

 

Im inclined to want to support the initiative to reduce emissions, but I don’t see this as a well considered means or method of doing so.   It adds, rather than reduces, complexity where it’s not necessary, it compounds existing preferential trading arrangements and it remains a challenging and costly system to administer and police. 
 

 

[woody paul]

How the hell is going too enforce this, police to busy?? Vosa not interested in static plant maybe it will be HMRC.

Can see hidden tanks fitted. 

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

But as a policy, it falls apart at the “some of the biggest contributors to our air quality” point since (a) trains, aircraft and ships must be worse(?),

I agree ships and planes may be worse but certainly don't know the relative numbers, trains only use about 1% of our total energy consumption and a great deal of that is electricity, so presumably a small amount of particulate emissions. With fallout of PM2.5 from Planes and ships often being over oceans how much does that mitigate compared with little diesels used in an urban environment?

 

 

1 hour ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

 

Im inclined to want to support the initiative to reduce emissions, but I don’t see this as a well considered means or method of doing so.   It adds, rather than reduces, complexity where it’s not necessary, it compounds existing preferential trading arrangements and it remains a challenging and costly system to administer and police. 
 

 

Yes so am I but I have questioned  the significance of PM2.5 exposure in the past. Although not a smoker I did have a lot of exposure to diesel exhaust in my working life and do experience breathlessness after mild exertions nowadays but I suspect there is more in it than that. Government takes a vast amount from the population to fund itself and public expenses, they are having to face a massive change in vehicle fuel duty  with electric vehicles  and loss of rates with online shopping going to foreign (non tax paying) entities. They will be looking at how to fund themselves in the future and this may be a small part of it.

 

We thought we were a post industrialised society having found  the holy grail of an exportable service (financial expertise) to cover our balance of payments deficit from importing goods, now that is severely compromised it's going to be interesting times.

 

 

[Justme]

20 hours ago, openspaceman said:

 

 

Also domestic heating will be excluded and therein lies the problem, whilst there are few domestic properties that use pressure jet  burners anyone that does will be able to have red delivered.

 

 

 

How?

 

Heating oil is not Red its yellow, It is also a different viscosity to red (35 / 37 sec if I remember right)

[htb]

31 minutes ago, Justme said:

 

 

How?

 

Heating oil is not Red its yellow, It is also a different viscosity to red (35 / 37 sec if I remember right)

There are two different central heating oil types.

28sec which is basically red diesel and 35 sec which kerosene (yellow).

 

They can both be used illegally as road fuel, but the kero is a bit hot and will over time kill the injector pump as not enough lubrication in it, so add 2 stroke oil. Or so I am told.

[doobin]

16 minutes ago, htb said:

There are two different central heating oil types.

28sec which is basically red diesel and 35 sec which kerosene (yellow).

 

They can both be used illegally as road fuel, but the kero is a bit hot and will over time kill the injector pump as not enough lubrication in it, so add 2 stroke oil. Or so I am told.

Other way round mate. 

[htb]

1 minute ago, doobin said:

Other way round mate. 

Thanks too much gin.

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Justme said:

 

 

How?

 

Heating oil is not Red its yellow, It is also a different viscosity to red (35 / 37 sec if I remember right)

Gasoil (red) is more viscous than kerosene (yellow) and needs a pressure jet nozzle to atomise the liquid so it will burn. You tend to find it in older and larger installations. At my last work, before I installed gas, if the red diesel tank ran low I would transfer some 45 gallon barrels from the heating tank.

 

As long as I ordered less than 2500litres I was only charged 5% Vat, which is a domestic heating rate. It didn't make any difference in the long run as we reclaimed VAT but it reduced cash flow for a while.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

TCD was a font of knowledge on such matters. 

[Stubby]

8 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

TCD was a font of knowledge on such matters. 

And still is hopefully