Two-rope Working - an update

[Mick Dempsey]

2 minutes ago, billpierce said:

Link not working me me neither

Basically it says use two ropes from now on.

[htb]

6 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Basically it says use two ropes from now on.

Don't tell him, then he can claim to know nothing about it and carry on safely as before.

[Arboricultured]

Seeing this as well as another thread about insurance companies now insisting on the full gambit of paperwork one would expect to provide on a commercial contract even on small domestic jobs at Mrs Miggin’s place is depressing.

For the small buissness trying to deliver a professional and quality service it looks like it is pretty much over.

Either that or it’s just a case of not bothering with insurance anymore because it’s not likely to be valid anyway and give up on the quality and crack on butchering the trees and grabbing the money because that is going to continue to happen anyway and there is no way anyone is going to be able to do it by the book and remain competitive.

[Arboricultured]

Also how can this way of working be insisted on when training providers are not offering it as training yet, considering how much onus is always on proof of competence? And secondly now I think about it how come so many people come out of collage not being able to climb on one line let alone two?

[jfc]

I looked at the accident data. Half the accident were due to knots not being tied right, a bing off the end of the rope, etc mistakes basically. 2 ropes can't teach you to tie knots right. It's a done deal anyway so just gonna have to suck it up and find a way to make it work.

[MattyF]

I am so glad I don’t live in the UK anymore.

Wish I had left 5 years ago .. quite clear the Arb association doesn’t care for the small man in tree work , this is really making me wonder why we sponsor them... I am thinking of cancelling any future work shops we had been considering and I enjoyed the last, but this is seriously making me re think.

[RC0]

Some people just have more ability than others. Some just shouldn't do tree work at all....I dont see why that so difficult to accept for what it is. Sad to see those who can and do being forcibly dragged down to this level without even having any say in the matter. Makes you wonder what will they think of next. Have many fond memories doing tree work in England, but the job has since been invaded by parasitic individuals and groups off, making up, then changing rules to create work and revenue for themselves. Glad I left.

[Dan]

Just playing devils advocate here, but surely if all these people who have had accidents due being shown how to climb in the wrong way will be able to sue there training providers? Then the training people will sue those that write the guidelines. That's seems to be the way things get done nowadays. 

[Arboricultured]

I looked at the accident data. Half the accident were due to knots not being tied right, a bing off the end of the rope, etc mistakes basically. 2 ropes can't teach you to tie knots right. It's a done deal anyway so just gonna have to suck it up and find a way to make it work.

The thing is, the ones who aren’t compliant now and don’t have any intention of ever giving it a seconds thought and frankly don’t care are still and always will be out there. So you either Wild West it with the cowboys or try and heap ever more compliance onto your already full plate and sell it as a professional service. But realistically 20% for VAT, what, 5% for office based compliance and now how much for twin working, how much will the average customer swallow? Unless the industry is properly “policed” and people can’t do a two week course and set up as a “tree surgery company” for little more than their day rate it will push small companies into a position of not being able to be competitive and remain compliant. In the last 10 years, I have seen rates go backwards for some jobs let alone even increase with inflation while operating costs still increase!

I think the guys that have left the country have been ahead of the curve to be honest.

Rant over.

[Bloom]

Access - install 2 climbing lines from the ground. So no ladders to get you into the tree. Also, throwing two throwlines to two separate anchor points. I've wasted many hours trying to hit anchor points with a single throw bag. Could be lunchtime before I've made a cut. I can see how this goes - try to comply, takes ages to get to your main anchor point, takes ages to get work done, two groundsman watching you fannying about, you've quoted the same price as you always would, mid afternoon you start stressing that the job isn't going to get done, take shortcuts and start rushing, accident happens. Or comply all day, job runs into the next day, you make no money, eventually you give up. One things for sure, customers aren't going to pay more cause you have to be slower.