Two Rope Working Consultation

[Bing!]

There is certainly an amount of ambiguity and it needs to be clearer. @scotspine1 has interpreted it that a 2nd short line will suffice, which you CAN read into it. However, the reason the 2 line system is being enforced is because of numpties cutting ropes, poorly tied knots, dropping off ropes etc so to counteract that they insist on a 2nd line. So surely this 2nd line must be able to reach the floor without having to re anchor lower in the crown?

Should HSE turn up on site at any point and find 1 lifeline easily reaching the floor and one lifeline 30ft short, I, in my opinion, would not be surprised if he cried foul and called your 2nd line nothing more than a long lanyard.

When all this is written in stone I will be using 2 full length ropes, I suspect the hse will be out and about checking up, I don't want to be the test case.

[Mark Bolam]

The HSE would be better off putting their time into checking up on gypos and cowboys operating with impunity.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

34 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

The HSE would be better off putting their time into checking up on gypos and cowboys operating with impunity.

Now you’re just applying CDF to a situation being orchestrated by pen pushers....

 

It’ll never gain traction ?

[Khriss]

On 15/12/2019 at 13:14, warren said:

Figure 8 descender. Or sit there awaiting rescue within 15mins ?

Takes some of us 15 minits to get from one end oof job t'other K

Edited December 17, 2019 by Khriss

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

34 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Takes some of us 15 minits to get from one end oof job t'other K

Takes me 15 minutes to finish breakfast!!

[Mark Bolam]

Is that in The Dolphin?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Is that in The Dolphin?

Not likely....  No blood on the floor!!

[stewmo]

 
I’m not putting a large 30m MEWP on that tree for two reasons. That access road is very narrow which means the outriggers are going down onto soft ground even with large thick underpads I’m not doing it on principle. MEWPS are far from being the wonder solution to tree removal they’re often touted as. That’s coming from someone who’s used them on 100s+ of big dismantles where the ground was rock solid and perfectly flat. 
 
The second reason is that those trees were perfectly healthy and more than suitable for climbing. 
 
Felling from ground level was not an option. 
 
Been doing a fair bit of thinking on this two rope issue on recent climbs like this. Your thoughts occasionally turn to the feasibility of adding in a second line (3 in total) and all that entails. 
 
One major issue that’s not been brought up is that when you add an extra climbing system to your setup it will have a distracting effect on your ability to focus on the tree itself. 3 lines and the additional hardware will undoubtedly dominate your mind to the detriment of your focus on the tree itself and the actual job in hand. 
 
We need to think very carefully as an industry before we adopt this very prescriptive guidance by the HSE and AA who only ever talk in the abstract about our job from the comfort of their warm offices. 
 

 
. 
 

I agree with what you are saying with respect to work positioning. It seems like a very workable solution to be tied in twice and one that I have felt from the beginning of this whole debate is the solution.

What are your thoughts on rope access to the crown where currently we shoot up one rope and ascend? Will you put two ropes in ?

Thanks

[scotspine1]

2 hours ago, stewmo said:

What are your thoughts on rope access to the crown where currently we shoot up one rope and ascend? Will you put two ropes in ?

 

On bigger trees,  twin wrench SRT lines will be the way forward for ascent and working in the tree. The ability to re-direct, move either of the static lines around stems and branches (whilst tied in with a lanyard) will be far easier than dragging two DdRT lines through the canopy.

 

Rope management will be a lot easier with two SRT lines and your bridge will be a lot less cluttered than it would be with two DdRT lines. 

 

You can operate two wrenches simultaneously with one hand for descent or branchwalking. 

 

 

[MattyF]

Will it though tim ? I think you are going to have to manage 120 metres of rope now on the average tree to keep it SRT and retrievable...for me SRT had been the answer to a lot of body damage from climbing and keeping me in the game.
I don’t like base anchors , I have seen and had a lot of top branches brake, which is fine as usually you only fall a few feet before the next crotch catches you but I will very rarely work a tree with a base anchor it’s too dangerous with debris and chainsaws so that means climbing from an isolated anchor which you need on the average 20 meter tree a 60 meter rope to set up a retrievable anchor so with a twin line system that’s 120 metres of rope to manage !
I do have a few ideas I’m going to play but I’m not relying on base anchors to get me out of this !