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Tom D

Two Rope Working Consultation

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Talking about this with Danny Mac today.

Seems most of us have been ignoring WAH regs for years.

Hypothetically, if you had been taught to climb on single rope by a training provider since 2005, and have had an accident (fall), could you deem them to be liable?

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On 03/12/2019 at 01:33, dumper said:

Can anyone remember the last time someone failed an aerial arb training course I have not seen it happen I think that it is the basis of the problem anyone can pass the course even if they don’t have the skills required perhaps HSE should be looking at training rather than working practises to quote their mantra training reduces accidents. Not changing systems of working that have been used for approaching half a century in some form or other

personally I would like to see colleges responsible for students after they have completed the course perhaps then they would not be in such a rush to pass every student capable or not

Great post. Colleges should be less concerned with keeping their pass rates up, and fail more people who clearly have no future in climbing trees. Its usually pretty obvious within 5 minutes of watching someone if they have what it takes.

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One of the people on my chainsaw in a tree course around 5 years ago failed because the instructor told us we needed to be climbing on two ropes plus lanyard. As none of us had two separate ropes we used the tail of our main line which was deemed fine, but as we hadn’t been taught this through the few days training, this one guy chose not to do it so as soon as he turned his saw on, he was asked to leave the tree as he had failed.

Plus when we did aerial rescue a few months previous, that was all done with two main lines and pussics (bad days!).

Sure this wasn’t college but a separate training provider...

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1 hour ago, Steve Bullman said:

Great post. Colleges should be less concerned with keeping their pass rates up, and fail more people who clearly have no future in climbing trees. Its usually pretty obvious within 5 minutes of watching someone if they have what it takes.

That’s the crux of the problem! Training / education establishments are businesses that are not in the business of ‘failing’ people. Bad for business to get a reputation for being the toughest place to get a qual. 

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Great post. Colleges should be less concerned with keeping their pass rates up, and fail more people who clearly have no future in climbing trees. Its usually pretty obvious within 5 minutes of watching someone if they have what it takes.
Exactly

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Well, day 2 in the "big brother's watching you house"..

Medium sized silver birch reduction meaning I had to climb back up to my anchors and down again to do the next section (1 rope ddrt 1 rope srt). I feel so secure in the 2 ropes that I'm conscious that I'm not using my strop for work positioning as much as I did before. But the doosey today was having put slack in the system to climb over a branch to do the next part of the reduction and then drop down about 4ft .. I looked at my ropes .... (Pic 1 .What a mess).  And when i got down (pic 2). And yes they both did start out in bags.

 

Production rate still down. I'll persevere .. and keep making note's so that maybe someone somewhere may realise it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

IMG_20191205_114309.jpg

IMG_20191205_114843.jpg

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45 minutes ago, warren said:

Well, day 2 in the "big brother's watching you house"..

Medium sized silver birch reduction meaning I had to climb back up to my anchors and down again to do the next section (1 rope ddrt 1 rope srt). I feel so secure in the 2 ropes that I'm conscious that I'm not using my strop for work positioning as much as I did before. But the doosey today was having put slack in the system to climb over a branch to do the next part of the reduction and then drop down about 4ft .. I looked at my ropes .... (Pic 1 .What a mess).  And when i got down (pic 2). And yes they both did start out in bags.

 

Production rate still down. I'll persevere .. and keep making note's so that maybe someone somewhere may realise it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

IMG_20191205_114309.jpg

IMG_20191205_114843.jpg

So glad i'm not climbing anymore!

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On 03/12/2019 at 01:33, dumper said:

Can anyone remember the last time someone failed an aerial arb training course....


Although I see your point up to a fashion, what must be appreciated is that there is a higher rate of attrition in a basic tree climbing course than other  ‘CS units’ simply because if you really are hopeless at it, you are pretty unlikely to finish the training, and almost guaranteed to not bother with an assessment.

 

I have had the dubious pleasure of training some truly hopeless causes at felling over the years, and almost all of them seem to convince themselves that they will ace an assessment!

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I admit I have not climbed in years and I  think the whole 2 line thing sucks.. but trying to come up with a workable solution..  I get in some trees it's fine and often used to climb big trees with 2 ends or 2 ropes.. But can't see it working 90 percent of the time.

 

Could the second line be used a bit like another side strop. You could keep the tail in a rope bag clipped to your harness and just use it to ensure your always tied in at least twice. This emergency line could potentially be much smaller diameter..

 

It sounds like a ball ache but might be less if a tangle fest..

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