Today's milling

[Squaredy]

2 hours ago, lux said:

If you were buying that board at WL West or English Woodlands both near Doobin and myself, a board like that air dried for 2 years would be around £400 plus vat with that character in it. Maybe 250 is fair all round if he's got to kiln it or wait a fair while to use it. 

Yes I understand, but freshly cut oak is of course worth a lot less than two years seasoned.  And of course anybody experienced in buying oak will know that they always look lovely straight off the saw, but when they are dry they are usually bendy, twisty the grain is no longer visible and there may be cracks and shakes.

 

 

[doobin]

1 hour ago, lux said:

Not just the size of the board.  Also the grade of it.  It’s certainly a nice board in his picture.  I suspect it will move a fair bit around some of those features and require some serious thicknessing to flatten out when dry but that’s another matter.  
I’m sure Doobin will share some dimensions.  Fair size stick on the trailer in his picture.  No chance you’d buy it at that price in the mills around our neck of the woods, albeit they don’t sell green boards as far as I know. 

It’s 550mmx3100mmx70mm Will be supplied to the customer as 8no rough cut oversized 250mmx750mm stair treads, ends sealed. He’s going to bolt them on the steelwork and bring them back once a bit drier after finishing the refurb to run through the thicknesser before final trimming and cutting. Total cost £300.  

Edited February 29 by doobin

[lux]

9 hours ago, Squaredy said:

Yes I understand, but freshly cut oak is of course worth a lot less than two years seasoned.  And of course anybody experienced in buying oak will know that they always look lovely straight off the saw, but when they are dry they are usually bendy, twisty the grain is no longer visible and there may be cracks and shakes.

 

 

I agree, that board is going to move a lot and it won't be uniform in its movement either because of the features in it. Its got great potential but there's a huge amount of work in that board to resemble anything vaguely finished. Green boards like that I just mill my own and dry them, I only buy dry timber so that's the only pricing I have to go by. My own milled boards I just keep for myself. They are bloody expensive now even when only air dried but sometimes I just dont have what I need milled or dried.  If they have been kilned or twice kilned to get the moisture right for furniture etc they cost an arm and a leg at our local mills

[lux]

8 hours ago, doobin said:

It’s 550mmx3100mmx70mm Will be supplied to the customer as 8no rough cut oversized 250mmx750mm stair treads, ends sealed. He’s going to bolt them on the steelwork and bring them back once a bit drier after finishing the refurb to run through the thicknesser before final trimming and cutting. Total cost £300.  

Are they going indoors ??? Bolting them when green won't stop them moving, they will snap and pull bolts or the treads will split. They will twist steel plate when they move as well.  its quite phenomenal what green oak will move as it settles. Budget for some thicknesses blades. my treads rinsed through the blades. He will be looking at reducing them in thickness by 20 to 30 percent to get them flat when dried. do it evenly from both sides so the amount of material removed from either side is the same , they will likely move again if not as the moisture will pull out of the board at an uneven rate on either side.   Like I said earlier, I started at 75mm to achieve a finish of 50mm when dried. that was only just possible on a couple of the treads by a whisker.. 

 

Here's the staircase we built in my (still ongoing) self build. The treads have stainless rods internally that cantilever into the wall. I milled that oak 6 years prior and during the thicknessing process it still 'released' and moved more.  The treads are 1000mm wide, I think the going was 285mm. 

 

 

[doobin]

2 minutes ago, lux said:

Are they going indoors ??? Bolting them when green won't stop them moving, they will snap and pull bolts or the treads will split. They will twist steel plate when they move as well.  its quite phenomenal what green oak will move as it settles. Budget for some thicknesses blades. my treads rinsed through the blades. He will be looking at reducing them in thickness by 20 to 30 percent to get them flat when dried. do it evenly from both sides so the amount of material removed from either side is the same , they will likely move again if not as the moisture will pull out of the board at an uneven rate on either side.   Like I said earlier, I started at 75mm to achieve a finish of 50mm when dried. that was only just possible on a couple of the treads by a whisker.. 

 

Here's the staircase we built in my (still ongoing) self build. The treads have stainless rods internally that cantilever into the wall. I milled that oak 6 years prior and during the thicknessing process it still 'released' and moved more.  The treads are 1000mm wide, I think the going was 285mm. 

 

 

I’ve known oak happily snap screws as it  dries. I gave him the option of the board for £200 and he takes it the English woodlands for drying and his builder does the rest. 
 

customer always right and all that!

[lux]

7 minutes ago, doobin said:

I’ve known oak happily snap screws as it  dries. I gave him the option of the board for £200 and he takes it the English woodlands for drying and his builder does the rest. 
 

customer always right and all that!

I think that’s a good idea mate. It’s one of those things that until you’ve done them you have no idea what a pain they can be. Oak in particular can really bite you 

Bigbeech has a nice little kiln set up down the rd.  you could send your customer to him to dry the board.  I’d imagine 3 weeks or so in the kiln. He’s a good bloke and knows his onions.  

[ucoulddoit]

9 hours ago, doobin said:

It’s 550mmx3100mmx70mm Will be supplied to the customer as 8no rough cut oversized 250mmx750mm stair treads, ends sealed. He’s going to bolt them on the steelwork and bring them back once a bit drier after finishing the refurb to run through the thicknesser before final trimming and cutting. Total cost £300.  

Very nice looking slab! Those sizes equate to about 4 cu feet, so at £250, that's about £60/cu feet which I'd say is a pretty good price for green timber, even for that quality. Including the work re-sawing to size and sealing the ends I'd say at £300 it's a fair price?

 

Just hope the buyer can dry it without too much damage. I'd be thinking about putting 1/2 inch stickers between the treads with a similar sized sheet of ply top and bottom, with a couple of ratchet straps to hold the bundle together. Otherwise the surfaces will dry quickly causing surface checking which oak is very prone to do. Checking can occur very quickly, in warm sunny weather working outside it can be pretty much immediate. But, I guess it depends on what the buyer wants to achieve and there is certainly a current fashion for a rustic look.

 

Andrew

[Johnsond]

Not really been up to much lately what with work etc and in reality with the fact I literally parked up the new mill after the first few times using it. To say it was a pain in the arse would be an understatement. First of I’ll just say those who are getting along fine with electric Trakmets 👍if you are happy “great”, mine was bought to cut large hardwoods not softwood. Blade speed was ridiculous, running at 1800m/min, combine that with the supplied x cuts which I detest and the result was very very poor cuts bordering on useless in fact, blade diving and losing tension ie heating up, just no consistency at all. On my old Trakmet I could turn the engine RPM down to suit, not ideal as you went out the peak torque curve but it did allow some flexibility. Ended up fitting a VFD with potentiometer ( which in my opinion they should be fitted with as standard) cost including fitting was nearly 4K on top of machine price, and let’s face it Trakmet are not cheap mills anymore. Spent last couple of days testing on DF, Elm and Ash and so far the difference is night and day, I’ve swapped to Woodmizer double hard blades in 4, 7 and 10 degrees. Cut all day today and had zero build up on the blade, no diving or loss of tension etc just consistent repeat cuts. Still a ways to go and hopefully getting down to Triggers to get into some big Oak and Ash which should give it the test I want. If anyone is looking at buying and plans hitting the big hardwoods I’d seriously recommend the VFD option. I mounted the box myself but had a proper sparky wire it in, way above my 3 pin plug skill level. 
Little update, got a piece of Ash on the mill today not the biggest at 600 mm max but still a decent log and plenty of moisture, had mill turned down to 1300m/min and using a 4 degree double hard, cut lovely with no hassle at all, nice coarse saw dust, wasn’t pushing it hard at all but very pleased with how it just chewed through 👍

Edited June 1 by Johnsond

[Johnsond]

Couple of days cutting Oak and Elm with Andy, mix of mine and his logs. Used the two days  as the final test of the VFD set up. Ended up running at 1300m/min and didn’t even use the 4 or 7 degree blades I had on-site, saw cut really well using woodmizer 10/30 double hards, consistent zero hassle cuts 👍. Night and day difference from the standard factory set up. 

Edited June 10 by Johnsond