New laws on woodburners

[Paul in the woods]

On 23/05/2018 at 20:08, Martin du Preez said:

No I'm sorry stoves are efficient if used properly. Wood smoke isn't going to kill anyone, it's been happening for centuries and now they want to stop us having a fire? 

If used properly - I wonder how many people do use them properly and how many burn wood that's too wet, try and leave a fire in overnight etc. Wood smoke has been killing people ever since we've discovered fires, especially bad in less well off countries where open wood fires are still used for cooking etc.

 

The reason for the latest consultation is the fact they've found harmful particulates in peoples lungs, and they seem to have traced it to wood burners. Perhaps you could find flaw in the research but I bet if you put some clean cloth over a chimney of an 'efficient' wood burner it would show soot.

 

If I was selling firewood I'd be thinking about selling a drier product at a better price and hoping (lobbying for) any law changes stop some of the cheap, wet mush being sold.

 

It's also not just about wood smoke, I gather they're also concerned about the ammonia given off by slurry spreading as it can react with other pollutants causing even more problems. I bet some will argue cow manure is natural but large slurry lagoons arn't

[openspaceman]

44 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

I'm told it's illegal in France to have any sort of bonfire anytime of year now.

 

the human respiratory system has some defence against wood smoke. But look into what's happening in Africa and Asia about air pollution in huts with no chimney.

serious breathing difficulties and lung problems after decades.

new designs of mud/stone/clay which are similar to rocket stoves are much cleaner burn, which then increases longevity.

In fact the recent studies in Malawi where a large group were given clean battery powered stoves to use did not find a significant difference in health of under 5 year olds  in the years of the trial. The population was so poverty stricken and malaria was rife  plus particulates from rubbish burning and smoke from nearby housing overwhelmed any benefits the stoves could offer.

 

This doesn't mean that striving to make better stoves is invalid but rather that the whole environment needs consideration. It also doesn't make the current fashionable ranting about diesel and woodsmoke directly attributable to killing people right.

[openspaceman]

43 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

and they seem to have traced it to wood burners.

Paul I'm running late so only comment on one part of your post, they have not traced anything. They have reason to believe that particulates are vectors of disease and they have made a leap to attribute all particulates of all sizes from any source and given them an equal rating for toxicity. Medical practitioners looking to fund their careers in research have conflated particulates with killing people. Yes there is no known safe lower limit for particulates in the atmosphere but there is also no direct correlation with all particulates of all sizes and disease.

 

40 years ago you would see a blue haze rising above cars idling at traffic lights, rubbish tips were deliberately burned and most people smoked plus we allowed stubble burning and gardeners burned rubbish, look at what's changed.

[difflock]

What distresses me is the pandering to the acute sensitivities, both physical and psychological of the fractionally small %age at the extremities of the bell curve, and this at some considerable financial cost and curtailment of the simple pleasures of the vast bulk of the population.

So should tractor pulling and Santa Pod be banned?

And all unnecessary pleasure/liesure related carbon and pollution producing activities

Gosh!

and how about those filthy traditional charcoal burners, spewing all those toxins into the air.

Are we going to be prevented from barbacuing? 

especially Pork ribs in a Muslim neighbourhood,

well if they can smell and identify the aroma, they can choose to be distressed and therefore litigate, for example.

etc

etc

P.S.

Perhaps due to my upbringing, but mostly due to a simple formed from observation core belief,

but;

I  consider the average human life to be overvalued, we are born, get or take our chances, then die,

if one has led a rich life, why should one wish to continue in a frail shell of a decrepit failing body,

and harshly,

if one has not had a good life or enjoyed life, why should we expect this to change in our dotage with both a failing mind and body.

I mostly enjoy life, and enjoy seeing others enjoy their lives,

butI also value nature above some of the lives of some of the negative-equity dross in the "living" in the wider community.

again,

tough love.

mth

 

 

 

[Lucan]

40 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

If I was selling firewood I'd be thinking about selling a drier product at a better price and hoping (lobbying for) any law changes stop some of the cheap, wet mush being sold.

The issue is there's no real industry body that can lobby politicians on behalf of UK firewood producers. I did post on here a few years ago asking why and the response was it would just be another money making scheme that cuts into my profits. As domestic wood burning gets more and more attention from policy makers and the media, not having a voice or anyone to fight the industry's corner could have disadvantages.

[Rough Hewn]

Wood eating bacteria release co2 stored in wood.

300 million years ago with no wood eating bacteria, oxygen levels hit 35%.

wood turned to coal.

climate change is a disease!

clearly the bacteria should be stopped.

i for one will be writing a most stern letter to the council.

?

[Alycidon]

As far as I am aware garden bonfires which usually provide lots of smoke at low level will not be banned.  With rubbish now being collected by councils on an even longer collection cycle I can see far more bonfires as people get rid of rubbish.  I had 25 bin liners full of crap dumped in my lane on Weds, mainly bottles, beer cans and pizza boxes.  The local tip is 5 miles away.

A

[difflock]

Hey Ho !

Nay worries here in Ulster = Cash-for-Ash la-la-land,

especially now as the local yobbo's are collecting for their culturally rich 12th Bonfires.

sigh.

[daveatdave]

my worry is that I will not be allowed to burn my end of life boots to get the last few pence out of the cost new and it saves them going to land fill  

[Alycidon]

 

Please delete, have already answered this.

A

Edited May 26, 2018 by Alycidon