Do you rates go up as much as they should each year..

[Mick Dempsey]

50 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

I can see both sides to this, but I think more and more that people getting in door knockers or the cheapest quote wins brigade get what they deserve.

I feel sorry for the trees, like.

Cheap doesn’t mean poor work.

[Mark Bolam]

Absolutely.

The cheapest price may well come from the most efficient and knowledgeable company.

But it usually doesn't....

[Boy English]

Having a kid arriving some time in the next few weeks means my office has been converted into a nursery, in the process of this I was cleaning out old paperwork, and found a couple of diaries and pricing figures etc from 2013, I remember increasing figures before then and chatting with other local companies that were generally doing the same and we were mostly within £50 - £100 of each other.

I have always had a baseline cost for half and full days which increases a certain amount with any additional plant or extra labour needed, several bits of plant were already included as I'm not up for the idea of making hard work out of a situation however these are generally shit box machines that I've bought and rebuilt as a hobby then use whenever I need them, I prefer assets rather than savings. I've never seen a couple of grand in the bank carry a log 50yds to the truck so i just keep collecting.

Since then I have increased staff wages by £20 a day.

In recent years competition has been higher than before and capped me increasing my pricing despite adding a third truck, 6 other bits of plant, and setting up a woodyard to make use of waste and provide more work for myself and staff.

The last year has been pretty dire and in that time we've introduced a new website with paid advertising, calls are coming in but the competing companies are kicking my arse in fairness.

Over time I seemed to have lowered my pricing without noticing as such but after finding my old paperwork it turns out I'm charging £60 a day less than in 2013 and a third down on diary bookings.

I believe that a major factor of this is new startups that haven't had to buy their gear with money they actually earned / saved themselves thus not wanting the rewards for the effort of earning it in the first place, a handout or possibly a share of sale / rental income of an inherited family home for instance.

My point being that several people I no don't actually need the same amount of money to keep going or advance and if they do it's simply not sunk in yet, some didn't start with a view or plan to run there own gig however some money turned up and they like the job or the idea of it so fired up on there own for a few more quid than they got doing whatever they did before.

I have discussed this with the old school tree chaps i know, they compete in slightly different markets with a lot of business being word of mouth are typically able to charge nearly double that of competing companies advertising alongside each other on the net and local rags..

I don't resent it as that is there plan and they are free to carry on, some may fold and some will be happy as they enjoy the job and money isn't what there here for.

It does however make it harder to increase earnings and move forward if you want to as it removes a lot of the bread and butter work that kept things ticking over in the past.

[matelot]

57 minutes ago, Boy English said:

I've never seen a couple of grand in the bank carry a log 50yds to the truck so i just keep collecting.
 

That's an absolute class expression!

[matelot]

From a slightly different perspective I've noticed over the last twenty years some things have got so much cheaper. I can go to my local M&S and get a pair of chinos for £16 and a pack of three shirts for £15. Twenty years back I'm sure those things would have cost twice as much. When you watch the telly you see adverts for washing machines and telly's at a couple of hundred pounds. Twenty years back they cost so much more.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

From a slightly different perspective I've noticed over the last twenty years some things have got so much cheaper. I can go to my local M&S and get a pair of chinos for £16 and a pack of three shirts for £15. Twenty years back I'm sure those things would have cost twice as much. When you watch the telly you see adverts for washing machines and telly's at a couple of hundred pounds. Twenty years back they cost so much more.

You’re not getting away with that Homer!!

Chinos and a 3 pack of short sleeved shirts....

Do not pass “Go”, do not collect £200, go straight to the Civil Service!!

[Stephen Blair]

You can only charge what your market allows.

EBay, Aldi, Liddell and the internet makes purchasing cheaper and cheaper so why would people expect to pay more now than they did 10 years ago. My prices have always been the same, I just buy kit to process the job quicker and pay off the machine.

 

[oldwoodcutter]

Boy English and I try to squeeze a living out of the same area, and what he says about the competition is absolutely correct.
There seems to be a new fresh faced crew starting up almost weekly , with new vehicles,chippers,and grinders signwritten with the latest catchy name.
Others may say that’s good for competition , but when their dayrate is from the 1970s that’s debatable.

[Stephen Blair]

This job is a young persons game! It's all about the glory and taking chances and risks! By the time you realise you need to charge more, had a few scares you are 30, have some kids and a mortgage and want more money for the job. There are no rules, you can work as hard as you want for as little or as much all for your own reasons. If you get the job, there will be a few that never got it and will complain .
Some folk are just better that some things than others, be it climbing or business or both.

[Sequoia]

I'm really enjoying this topic and there have been loads of interesting perspectives (and gripes!).

With regards to start-ups, weren't we all there once?  I know that it gets tiresome seeing new companies spring up with shiny kit (and low day rates), but in 1999 that was me.  And I priced low to get as much work and experience as I could and didn't make a profit for 2 years.  But I also didn't have any time off, was pretty knackered  a lot of the time, often demoralised, spent Saturdays trying to fill the following week with work, didn't have a network of great subbies, jobs that I'd priced poorly would overrun and cost me dearly.......I don't think life is much different for today's start-ups.  And I wouldn't be in their shoes for all the kit in Honey Brothers.  Good luck to you all.