Stage V Non-road engine diesel emissions

[THtreeservices]

39 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

 

I think you’re spot on - looking to the future.

S/H value must fall in line with a predicted drop in demand associated with increasing penalties in urban areas. It might be that rural areas are less affected (in the short term) but it’s still taking away a potential market sector for S/H diesel machines.

I’d accept the sales (and user) pitch that fuel consumption is fairly equal, surely the biggest negative factor is the loss of access to rebated diesel?

Until petrol starts to take over (or folks pony up the extra mullah for Stage V Diesel engine) having a “clean” motor is something that could be presented as a positive sales pitch - particularly to the rich, eco hippies - and could provide the winning edge over an otherwise equal competitor...

Just musing....

Exactly, tbh i never used rebated fuel anyway so i noticed cheaper fuel lol. I can say the 37hp briggs is really good on fuel, i was expecting it to be a drinking, but its just me i guess :D.

[Ferguson system]

Petrol V engines rock, just take a look at the new Bandit intimidator:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rnp2pnBUR0

[GlobalNewark]

For the most part you will have to go where legislation takes us, there will always be new laws with cut off dates & penalties for not conforming, just look at lorries into central London over the past few years. Buy a modern wagon or be penalised for running an older version, what we are seeing is an expansion of this but in different classes & timescales.

Personally as a Bandit supplier we sold off our Tier 3 engines as we had a cut off date for Tier 4 interim (changeover period) & Tier 4 final to take over. We advised our customers that they are still legal but when they are gone there gone, the new machines went up in price averaging £5K. It’s no different for the competitors as we are all in the same boat, we have been dealing with this for years already but apart from price makes no difference to our product as we don’t offer small or lightweight. For all lightweight products this is an issue as they cannot make the weight limit forcing them to change.

The choice will be Tier 4 final Diesel engines with DPF / ad blue systems or petrol, anything you currently have is fine unless you are in a big city where I’m sure local authorities will be asking questions in the future.

[Mick Dempsey]

In answer to KJ.

 

I can’t see clients caring, or at least a significant proportion of them.

 

For most clients it’s Do the job, Don’t smash anything, Here’s the money, Goodbye.

 

Just the way I like it.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Mick Dempsey

[GA Groundcare]

Private / domestic clients you a probably right where you are collecting the cash on completion. 

 

It’ll be anything with order numbers or account based clients that take an interest. 

 

[agrimog]

everyone seems to be jumping on the "lets blame dirty diesels" bandwagon, have you all forgotten about the developments in bio-diesel production, and the fact that the newer stuff has no hydrocarbon emmisions at all, and is very close to total combustion, certain european car builders are realising figures that will blow the doubters out of the water............and why after all this time has no-ne ever questioned why the great rush to introduce the 4 gas test into MOT's for petrol engines was quickly dropped after the introduction of unleaded fuel....could it be the fact that the proposed levels could never be met with the technology as it was

 

[Stubby]

Does any one think that respiratory problems will decline with the drop in diesels but the hole in the ozone layer will get bigger with more petrol fueled stuff ?

[Aicchalmers]

29 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Does any one think that respiratory problems will decline with the drop in diesels but the hole in the ozone layer will get bigger with more petrol fueled stuff ?

Always a trade-off - diesels have always been more efficient and emitting less C02 emissions, and could be even more so if run ultra-lean with addition of (large amounts of) H2 etc. Drawback being then they emit loads more NOX emissions. I think the ones that agri is talking about are probably just that but with the addition of adblue/cat/egr/dpf, would be interested to know if they end up more efficient overall. Seems like the particulates and NOX (the current pollutant of the day, not the only one) do accumulate to be a big issue in big condensed cities in which case just get the vehicles off the road in the first place and find alternative ways to get things around, but otherwise crack on with a nice decat/de-egr/dpf pre-common rail turbo diesel and keep on working. Personally would love to see a hybrid chipper and have a 400v 3 phase socket on the outside of every building and then we can just plug our electric chippers in whenever working near buildings, when not crack on with a nice diesel running on local biofuels like waste lard.. With the ozone layer as far as I understood it the main source is evaporation of solvents such as petrol and straight hydrocarbon pollution, could this be controlled more?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

In answer to KJ.

 

I can’t see clients caring, or at least a significant proportion of them.

 

For most clients it’s Do the job, Don’t smash anything, Here’s the money, Goodbye.

 

Just the way I like it.

 

 

Agreed, the majority (domestic) prob do think that way, for now. But inside emissions control zones (limited - for now, but bound to grow) and as mentioned, on larger site projects / govmt works for example, total project carbon capture may well feature as we inexorably ride the legislative train down the tracks.

 

I’m in the market for a new chipper and whilst trying to consider future proofing elements was just looking for opinions of the AT massive.

 

I may be over thinking it, it wouldn’t be the first time!!

 

PS - where’s TCD when you need some fuel info!! He’d have a view! (As well as stump’s too high!!)

[agrimog]

and how much nox do you think an unleaded petrol engine emits......one of the reasons no 4 gas test........ the biggest problem with diesel is smart arses trying to blame them for every air polution problem, by screwing about with what they're allowed to emit as exhaust the "experts" have managed to take a design that was hard working, very long lifed, produced very little  noxious emissions(if kept properly maintained and tuned) now with egr, ad blue, and dpf and cats, they are efectivly killing the engines, and with the new generation of bio fuels, none of these are needed because the base material isnt a hydrocarbon so a little h2o and some co2 and minor particulates are all that comes out. and as for the move to electric, your just moving the problem to the end of a wire..