Potus ???

[Haironyourchest]

6 hours ago, sime42 said:

 

Oooh, cryptic. Fair enough.

 

The office of POTUS isn't meant to be a platform for dishing out retribution for perceived personal slights, the idea is to serve the ones country. But nevermind the details.

 

I agree, it shouldn't be. But the nature of bifurcation of values and vision in America makes any enforcement of policy by either party president an act of harm to the other side, by default. Which is interpreted as revenge. And probably with accuracy, in some cases. 

 

I actually don't think Trump will go on a personal revenge binge, although if he does I wouldn't blame him. But it's fun to scare liberals on the internet. 😉

 

 

[peds]

42 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

I agree, it shouldn't be. But the nature of bifurcation of values and vision in America makes any enforcement of policy by either party president an act of harm to the other side, by default. Which is interpreted as revenge. And probably with accuracy, in some cases.

 

The scales on which that harm can be measured are heavily weighted towards one side. An increase in deaths from pregnancy complications and higher rates of infanticide; higher rates of cancer, lung disease, etc due to fewer environmental and pollution regulations; doctors, nurses, other health care professionals being locked up, emigrating, or lynched by the "pro life" (lol) crowd and the resulting staff deficit having further detrimental effects; an increase in violence towards the LGBT+ community after the green light from Donald; the same green light will bring an increase in violence against people of colour both immigrant AND homegrown, because, who really cares about the difference; an increase in violence against college-educated people; an increase in violence against anyone with left-leaning tendencies; I mean I could go on but that's just off the top of my head... what's on the other side of the scale?

 

44 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

I actually don't think Trump will go on a personal revenge binge, although if he does I wouldn't blame him.

 

He has promised as much, and it is entirely possible that this will be the first thing that Donald has ever said that isn't actually a lie.

[difflock]

Ya Boo Sucks!

[Haironyourchest]

2 hours ago, peds said:

 

The scales on which that harm can be measured are heavily weighted towards one side. An increase in deaths from pregnancy complications and higher rates of infanticide; higher rates of cancer, lung disease, etc due to fewer environmental and pollution regulations; doctors, nurses, other health care professionals being locked up, emigrating, or lynched by the "pro life" (lol) crowd and the resulting staff deficit having further detrimental effects; an increase in violence towards the LGBT+ community after the green light from Donald; the same green light will bring an increase in violence against people of colour both immigrant AND homegrown, because, who really cares about the difference; an increase in violence against college-educated people; an increase in violence against anyone with left-leaning tendencies; I mean I could go on but that's just off the top of my head... what's on the other side of the scale?

 

 

He has promised as much, and it is entirely possible that this will be the first thing that Donald has ever said that isn't actually a lie.

 

Weird how 150 ish million conservative voters don't agree with your liberal media talking points. Maybe their lived experience is different 🤔

[peds]

Well, that's just plain wrong, there flat out aren't 150 million of them, as about 30 seconds of googling will tell you.

Registered Voters by Party 2024

WORLDPOPULATIONREVIEW.COM

 

There's the first link I plucked out of my ass, others are available. 

 

So, back to your original point: if the radical loony left win, who exactly will be harmed? Feel free to stop after you've listed as many as I did up above, we can always start again after that.

[Haironyourchest]

7 minutes ago, peds said:

Well, that's just plain wrong, there flat out aren't 150 million of them, as about 30 seconds of googling will tell you.

Registered Voters by Party 2024

WORLDPOPULATIONREVIEW.COM

 

There's the first link I plucked out of my ass, others are available. 

 

So, back to your original point: if the radical loony left win, who exactly will be harmed? Feel free to stop after you've listed as many as I did up above, we can always start again after that.

 

Yeah you're right, that figure was exaggerated. That's the Trump influence.

 

They don't all vote. Same as people of the left. USA has what, 350 million people? Say 300 adults.

 

Say 100 million odd (generously) are politically ambivalent. Leaving 100 mill conservative and 100 mill liberal.

 

Of the hundred million "politically active" right/left groups, probably 75% of each group vote in presidential elections. Adjust my figure down to 75 million.

 

Lived experience, Peds 😉. They like Trump. And many of them are Women, Hispanic, Black, poor, rich, and so on.

 

Back to my original point: I suppose if we asked a bunch of different conservatives "how do/will liberal policies harm you" they will each give a different reply, from the very personal to the macro view. It may be paranoia or "wrong values" or itay be true, we cannot know for sure. But it's their lived experience. 

 

If we ask American liberal voters the flip question, they will do the same. Some of them will rattle off the list of talking points.

 

I suppose it all comes down to ones pont of view...

[Big J]

There are a whole host of issues with democracy, but particularly the US democracy. It's systemic and I don't think we'll ever see significant change in our lifetimes. I'll run through a few points:

 

• The electoral college is anti-democratic. It allows for and encourages minority rule. The Republicans haven't won the popular vote since 2004. 
• The state system, and the number of senators allocated to each state is also antidemocratic. Wyoming has 1 senator for every 290k population. California near as makes no difference 1 for every million population. 
• The nature of the electoral college means that almost all votes in almost all states are irrelevent. It comes down to about 100,000 votes in a handful of swing states.
• Money plays far to massive a role in American politics. Allowing such collosal sums to be spent means that the truth is always bent, obfuscated or even hidden. There are 12,500 registered lobbyists in Washington - that's more than 20 for every senator or congressman.
• Gerrymandering - a practice normally undertaken by Republicans involving boundary changes to make it easier for them to retain or create electoral majorities in their districts. 
• Political appointment of judges. There is no separation of political and judicial power in the US. Take the supreme court as an example. 
• The extremely partisan nature of public broadcasting. People tune into the news network that they feel most comfortable in and consequently find an echo chamber reinforcing their world view. Obviously, that's true across the developed world, but the US is especially bad. I make a point of watching both MSNBC and Fox and find both to be pretty awful.

I do not claim that the Democratic Party is anywhere near perfect. There is a great deal that they do that I find to be at best lacking (standing up for women's reproductive rights) or worst objectionable (continuing to support Israel), but under Biden they have had a productive and progressive administration (especially on the domestic front). It's right that Biden is not standing again. Would I have liked a contested primary? Yes, of course. But there isn't time. Harris will be fine, and certainly a million times better than Trump.

 

The issue with Trumpism (which is what it is) is that it is so far from Republicanism that the only thing you can say it is now is an anti-democratic, authoritarianistic cult of personality. Trump's only interest is Trump. He has demostrated countless times that he will only act in his own interest, or aligned with his own prejudices. Many of the people from the fringes of the GOP that he chooses to surround himself with are frankly terrifying. His continual lying against overwhelming proof is shocking, and worse still that his loyalist MAGA devotees take it, hook, line and sinker. 

 

I sincerely hope that common sense prevails and that Trump is given the boot in November. Perhaps then all his legal issues will finally catch up with him (the legal system in the US is clearly two tier, depending on your net worth) and he does some time. He's an absolute disgrace.

[peds]

[GarethM]

My god, this has turned into a Chicken Little.

 

If you're so sure Kamala will win go put a week's wages on her at the bookies!.

[peds]