trigger_andy

Ah ok. I really liked my 088, puled through the logs great. A fellow member here now has it and he is impressed with its performance. So may I'll not see such a bigger of an improvement after all. Ive got a classic car up for sale, if that sells I'll have the funds to get more heavily into milling on my own plot and having a range of slabs drying and for sale. Make it more of a proper business than just the hobby it is for me. Im also getting inundated with milling requests for Alaskan and Bandsaw work.

Dont let Rough hear you say that!

Im looking at getting an 881 and a 60" Panther Mill in the first quarter of 2021. I used an 088 before and thought it was really good for milling but Rough said the new 881 is a good step up from the 880 then the step up from an 088 must be quite impressive.

I understand what you're saying. But if milk is consistently sold at cost or just below cost without pouring any away on a good day then the profit has to come from somewhere else surely?

Yes, but thats not what Eggs is referring to is it? He's relating a story of a Farmer who planted a cash crop with the intention of selling to a Sugar Company and when the Sugar Company refuses to buy the crop he has no option but to plow the Crop back in and take a loss.

Not only is the farmer losing revenue from not selling his produce he's wasted time and money planting the crop in the first place. Id assume plowing back in was the cheapest and easiest option? The nutrients being put back in would surely be a tertiary bonus considering they'd much rather have pulled and sold them.

Norway as you know has a vastly different demographic than the UK. The argument that the vast majority of the North Sea and West of Shetland reserves should have been kept solely for the Scottish people is a separate discussion, but had that been the case perhaps Scotland with a similar population density would have prospered in the same way Norway did? We might have been even more blessed and would have never seen the rise of the SNP. So diluting a commodity that made a nation of 5 million prosper verses a nation of 65 million will obviously have a vastly differing effect on the economy. I believe there is government papers from the 70's relating to this very subject. They where fairly prominent in the run up to the referendum. Anyway, they basically said that the North Sea Oil reserves acted as a guarantee for the debt and future loans for the UK.

Im surprised he's lasted as long as he has. Must be quite demoralising watching his livelihood disapear down the drain.

Criminal? Criminal that the small scale and Id assume more ethical Farmer that actually cares about his small heard should be banned because of large scale Farms practices? It is criminal he has to pour good milk down the drain but I think your pointing your finger in the wrong direction here. I cant tell if you're being facetious or not though?

Thats kinda cool and must be very handy for Fencers. Mortice Safe Chainsaw Attachment 2 Sizes available RURALFENCING.COM Snedden's Mortice Safe Chainsaw attachment allows the operator to use the tip of the chainsaw to cut mortices into...

Might as well.

Certainly makes more sense than the other explanation.

Cant be that keen if you'd not even bother traveling 50 miles to go get a tool you really want?

I dont think being chased by a dog and the production of Foie gras are in the same league. But if thats the best example you can come back with I'll say my assumption was right and we do indeed having significantly animal welfare than on the Continent.

I dont know much about the rest but I always assumed we had a higher standard of animal welfare than many of the countries on the Continent? Foie gras springs to mind. And Bull Fighting.

Its all way above my paygrade but if the Product the Dairies are selling is at a point below the breakeven, or even at the breakeven cost then profit has to come from another source surely? Additionally the Government will want/need to keep the production of Dairy products flowing to feed the masses so surely that has to come from Subsidies? Unless maybe Cream, butter, cheese etc are all making enough of a profit that allows milk to be dished out for free? Could well be? Really dont know, but I do like Grahams milk, its the proper stuff with the cream at the top of the bottle like the good old days. We get it in our local Tescos. Toyed with the idea of getting milk delivered again as there is one local firm that might come out as far as us but we buy Organic Milk for the kids. Gold Top | Graham's Family Dairy WWW.GRAHAMSFAMILYDAIRY.COM Not sure what you mean when you say you threw your old man off of Big Ben?

I understand the glut verses scarcity point but do think it runs far deeper than that. Without the subsidies I doubt many farmers could keep going even if they put money made in scares times away to cover the glut periods. Prices still fluctuate due to disease and weather conditions, ie flooding and drought. Admittedly not as much as with out the subsidies but I really cant see Farmers making a living off of the prices they get for their produce if they where not heavily subsidised. Is that to stop wild swings in the market price or is it to allow everyone to continue to afford staple produce at the expense of those that pay tax? I suspect a bit of both but leaning more towards a steady flow of cheap produce to keep the masses fed. Fed and watered masses dont tend to revolt. The Romans taught us that. Instead of the Circus we religiously follow sports such as Football. What we've allowed to happen to the Dairies is shocking really. I still remember walking to the local Dairy in Braemar as a kid with my Mum to take a jug/container down to collect some milk. I made some pocket money as a 12 year old helping on the Dairy Farm we used to rent a cottage on. That was a one man operation. Surely these big dairies can only afford to invest in mechanised milking if they are being heavily subsidised considering they are being paid less than the production cost of the milk? Its like they are almost giving the milk away for free and making a living off of the subsidies. We in turn pay a few pence per pint of milk at POS but not really realising we're paying through the nose for it because as we're paying taxes we're paying for the portion that those who dont pay tax are not paying as well. At least where I come from the milk is all local. Grahams springs to mind. The biggest player in Scotland (I believe) Is Wisemans, but they are not even Scottish owned anymore. But we have loads of Dairy farms round our way still, good beef as well but that can only be expected from the heartlands of Aberdeen Angus. These are of course my uneducated musings, but an interesting subject none the less.

So your original point is you'd not like the idea of the State controlling our food prices and when I explain my understanding of how the State is actually controlling the food prices your reply is 'yeh, I said that'? What?

Someone with a better understanding of this than I could better answer but we simply do not see the real cost in the shops. We see an artificially low cost in the shops and the hidden cost is paid for via the taxpayer. Its like communism but with extra steps. So regarding your premise of 80p milk I think the reality is more that the real cost of milk is 80p. But the Government is making those who actually pay tax cover 40p of that through subsidies. The milk in the Shop is now 60p. Those that dont pay tax get their milk at 60p but the taxpayer has paid £1.00 for that 80p milk. Yet everyone who is paying 60p for that milk is up in arms as its so expensive. That in my mind is state controlled prices. The state is keeping the prices of staples artificially low by making the taxpayer in effect pay twice. Remove all subsidies, level the playing field and have the end user pay the actual cost of food and a lot of people would be in for a very nasty shock, and most likely starve to death. People really do not know how good they have it, all thanks to state controlled prices. The State controls the prices by determining how much subsidies they pay the Farmer.

Is the reason foods increasingly cheap not because it’s already state controlled? Take away all the subsidies and you’ll soon see the real cost.

Maybe, I dont quite buy that though. They very rarely speak English, they all seem to migrate to where there is other immigrants have already set up their ghetto's and they all seem to have smart phones so I doubt they dont know what they are expecting when they land here. I think they know exactly what they're coming to when they risk it all in the RIBs. Perhaps its not quite as Rosey on the Continent after all?

If we are that bad here in the UK why are there so many immigrants risking their lives to get to our shores? They literally have to walk past most of the Northern European Countries to get to the UK, or at least they could find a safe land route to anywhere in Northern Europe that does not involve dinghies in freezing winter temperatures.

I think J is just cherry picking Scandinavia and Germany. He is right in that sense though, we are a long way behind Germany and Scandinavia. But being in the EU did not help that one bit did it? We where still the poor man of Europe. Perhaps being out of the EU wont make much of a change in that regard either so its kind of a moot point really.

I guess we do agree on something after all. I dont think change will ever come from the top on this particular subject. Globalisation is here to stay Im afraid and people will always want something cheaper and cheaper. So its just down to individuals really. Wont make much of an impact in the grand scheme of things but its nice to support local or at least UK businesses and the quality is very good. Take the Hogget for example, not everyones a fan but its delicious, its fairly cheap. Think I paid £6/kg last time? And you're directly supporting a Small Croftholder. Win/win! He does a run every so often down my way so I buy then, I dont think he delivers UK wide, but there is bound to be Farmers like him the UK over. Definitely worth looking into.

I removed that last part as I thought it sounded a bit pretentious. https://www.kingcrab.co.uk/ I like these guys. Delivered to your door within 24 hours. I also buy Beef and Hogget on-line through facebook of all places. Scottish Crofters and small scale Farmers. https://www.facebook.com/CreagMhorHebrideans No, 30 minute round trip, but I dont go into town specifically for Fish, I'll buy at the Mongers or Butchers if Im already in town getting a shop or buying other supplies. If I can buy local I do, if I can buy UK sourced I do. Its about practicing what you preach. There is little point in bleating on about it if you're not putting these things into practice yourself. And yes, road miles comes into play, but I feel much better that Im supporting local or UK Fishers and Farmers than importing from around the Globe.