Alycidon

I wouldn't do it if I had to pay some of the prices mentioned on here. Oh and I did some calcs on the numbers - http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/firewood-forum/33748-comparing-cost-firewood-other-fuels.html These are the latest figures: I had not seen these and they reflect the price increases in logs this year. Energy Cost Comparison | Nottingham Energy Partnership The object of the exercise is to get the public burning more wood. A

Costs of firewood wood per kw is about the same as gas before the last price hike. See the Nottingham Energy Partnership web site. People buying stoves are buying for two reasons: The most common is for a secondary heating + emergency cooking source the fuel for which is not supplied by a national company who give the impression of competing but in reality do not. The second less common reason is to do their bit reducing their carbon footprint. Esse currently sell more wood fired range cookers than all the other types put together. A third is those buring oil or LPG, they pay far more especially the LPG boys. They want to save money and it is easy to show them how, a typical stove installation in an oil fired house could pay for itself in under two years in a cold winters, I sold a guy one this time last year, he says it paid for it self against oil in under one year but he gets his wood very cheap or free. I still find houses with no heating at all, the stove or open fire is the sole heat source. Not many but they are still there, mainly populated by older folks. A

What is their secret ?. Cash, sharp marketing and good product image. From the video the processor looked like a Pinosa maybe, that can I understand run on a full auto set up, just keep the feed rack loaded and take away the wooden crates. Presumably the product has a period of time in the crates then tipped into the metal bins to be finished off in a kiln, then packed. Carriage to the end user will be costing £30 - £40 a pallet I expect, interesting that the delivery guy seemed to be able to pull a big bag through gravel on a pump truck !!. Bet he drinks Carling Black Label !!. So you say they are driving local cord prices up, look at the maths, cost say £45, process and pack it, £30, deliver it £30, marketing £10 a cube, Profit £25 a cube or thereabouts. Maybe I am talking out of my backside with those figures but they wont be doing it for the good of their health. They spend a lot marketing the brand and the concept of burning wood, selling the benefits of kiln drying, we know that are doubtful ( except for killing boring insects) but the public does not. They have a high quality stove and want to feed it high quality fuel. They have working links with most stove manufacturers, leaflets are placed into stoves etc etc so the CW product is seen as being endorsed by the stove manufacturer, neat. I think we can all learn something here and maybe benchmark our own business against it. You boys selling wood as a stand alone business need to have close links with people like me selling stoves ( I do my own logs thanks!!) , perhaps offering an 'own brand' image for the stove guy. Easy to do these days with Microsoft Publisher, I have just sorted my own brand name and image for logs. Be straight with him though, assuming you are delivering direct the customer will sooner or later attempt to buy direct from you, that should be rebuffed maybe by quoting a higher price than the stove guy. Trust is essential, tell the stove guy which of his customers have approached you. At the end of the day if it goes wrong between you then you have a list of customers !!. Most people buying stoves today have no experience at all with fire, the stove supplier should be able to also sell wood especially when taking the stove order. I deliver a stove, flue parts and a cu m of wood in a bag, can just get it all onto a trailer. Sorry if I rambled a bit, just thinking aloud. Feel free to flame it. A

i'm sure if we could get a boiler big enough the other houses would pay to heat his house with a profit..and burn all softwood and willow, poplar. horse chestnut that goes on the fire in yard.. not to mention the 100's of pallets that come from the industrial units we let... it is a waste your right... A biomass boiler burning chip would cut your energy costs by 50%. CJ Grain put a Riko moving grate boiler in to burn his Miscanthus pellets, works well, loads it with a teleporter. Careful with the ash from pallets, the remnants of the preservatives are apparently in the ash, these are harmful to health. A

Easy money maybe as they deliver it direct, what happens as and when you have a fall out?, suddenly all your customers will be being supplied direct !!. Personally I prefer to control my own destiny, that means doing my own deliveries, all of them. Look at the Americans selling kilns, time in a kiln is pretty limited. I processed some softwood yesterday, felled about 3 weeks, moisture about 30% and some ash felled within the last week, moisture 27%. I could not believe they were so low. Then checked some very large poplars wind blown a year or so ago at 37-40% so the meter is about right. Kiln Dried generally is 20-22%, not sure what CW moisture level is in fairness. I took out 2 tonnes of natural air dried softwood tonight that I processed earlier this year ( May time) and kept under an open barn, moisture varied from 7% up to about 15%. CW do seem a very switched on company but given sufficient funding then there is no reason why they cannot be emulated. They do have open days sometimes but I always seem to find out to late. A

I used Bag Supplies, got those green ones that look so much less of an eyefull that the white ones. Some have done 3 trips so far, would certainly buy some more. A

Thats spot on, the Scandinavians mainly burn softwood. Last year I had a smal pile of hard and a pile of soft about 3 times as big. It all sold. This year I have the same rations but much bigger piles. I am selling Firewood and Hardwood, not had a single complaint yet but I do make ultra sure its very dry. A

Thats exactly why I started the thread !!. Looking at the replies the general opinion is train the guy yourself from scratch, give him 30 mins on and 30 mins off as concentration starts to slip after 30 mins. Closely supervise ( looking over shoulder) for as long as it takes, this may be a week or more, one chap suggested 40 hours but you may be able to cut that back a bit if they guy is good, has a chainsaw ticket etc. Make sure the guy knows how to service the machine, make sure all the guards, safety devices etc are present and work correctly. Do a risk assessment, take on board the points in the HSE leaflet on processors. Start a training register and get the guy to sign it when he has completed certain tasks competently. You are creating a paper trail that you may have to reley on in court, get it wrong and he does something stupid and it could cost you 30K in fines. One other thing to consider is what are you going to do with the lad when he has reduced your log pile to nothing. A

My brothers have a massive HC on their farm that has been showing signs for a couple of years, this is a HUGE tree, maybe 60 feet tall with a trunk at least six feet ( maybe 10) in diameter. It stands in a field hedge, grass with livestock one side, cerials the other, not on a road. Is there anything that can be done, I was not aware that there was, A

The grant the Hardwood guys got closed in Feb this year, if there is anything else about could some one pm me details please. I am in East Midlands. A

What sort of diameters ?, processor friendly or rings or a mix. Nick would struggle with rings on a timber trailer me thinks. A

Put woodturning timber into google. Quite a few specialist suppliers come up, I would send an e mail to a bunch of them and see what happens. Cant believe they wont be interested. A

Never knock a guy selling to dear, far far better that than selling to cheap. look and learn !! . I was in a DIY shed today, netted logs marked Hardwood Logs looked like softwood to me, Not Ash,Oak, Beech or Birch for sure, Forgot to take my moisture meter in for a prod. A

I read that the Hardwood Logs guys got a grant from the East Midland Development Agency to upgrade their processor to the new Pinosa. http://www.hardwoodlogsltd.co.uk/ My investigations seem to show that this line of possible funding has now been closed by the govt. Anyone care to comment on if this is correct or not and if so are their any other grant funding options. Pretty sure I am not in a development or deprived area. Thanks A

With a single roll I assume !!. I learnt on the Dexta in the rain, no cab of course, I was not allowed off until I had mastered it. Mind you I have never been able to reverse a 4 wheel drawbar set up, seen it done yes but never needed to learn as we had nothing with that axle configuration other than a bale elevator which could be moved by hand. A

Fully automatic seems the way forward to me, one operator who fills the infill load rack and removes cut logs. Cant see any point at all to have a guy pulling levers all day. Combine harvesters now have camera controlled steering systems to keep the head in the work, ( you try maintaining the end of a 30 foot cutter bar to within a few inches and monitor the machine at the same time, add in the dark as well, when your lights only show you about 30 feet in front of the machine I have had some days with a 20 foot, not easy) I therefore cant see any problem with full auto machines assuming the transition of logs into the splitting chamber is foolproof. I do like the new Pinosa but it seems some with one dont. Just thinking out loud !!. A

Agreed, I was also driving Fordson Dexta's and Super Majors at about 8 or 9 usually on thinks like chain harrowing of rolling. Then graduated to discing,ploughing etc when a bit older. Having a feel for what the machine is doing and when its just starting to struggle by the engine note is only learned by experience. A

Same here. It it sells this winter fine, if not it will be worth even more next winter !!. Got a few cube going out this week all with new stoves, I do a cube of soft and a stove and flue parts on the same load. Just a bit of a pain getting the cube into a 5 foot IFW box van. Push fit either side due to the bags expanding out. A

Dont quite know how old this lad is, 17-18 maybe, left school anyway. He would be supervised by another guy in his 30s but he would also need training on the processor. The older guy has formal chainsaw training. Interesting about working alone, I pretty well always use it alone !!. I can see the point though, both people should also ideally be first aid at work qualified. Thanks for your thoughts and input. A

I am looking to take on a lad to run my processor on a casual add-hoc basis. Maybe 10 hours a week. I am sure somewhere there are H&S requirements about young people and dangerous equipment, given that he is given proper training in the use of the machine ( JAPA 700) and associated tractors ( MF135) and loader ( JD 4400) and safety equipment is there a minimum age limit that applies?. Got a feeling its 21 but might be wrong. Thanks for your input. A

Yes almost certainly. Now softwood or poplar is perfectly OK as a fuel for your stove ( thats what most Scandinavians burn!!) so long as it has a moisture content below 16% ideally or 18% at a push. If you are a new stove owner then invest in a mositure meter. A

I had an instance last spring where another well known out of town shed sold two ladies a bag of logs for their new stove ( not one I had supplied !!). I got called in when they would not burn. The girls had paid about £7 for about 10 logs maybe 250mm long and 75-100mm dia. They thought that due to the weight they were getting hardwood, wrong, they got softwood at between 45% and 50% moisture. Problem is these sheds buy on price and price alone. They also demand 100% availability, timed deliveries, full credit on anything deemed to be 'faulty' etc etc. A

I have used Geodis for delivering stoves when they need to go a fair distance, about £45 a pallet + VAT is the rate. 10 years ago it was £65!!. A

The Morso ones I sell do look slightly different but the image on the Morso web site is the same as the one you have posted. Morso are a stove manufacturer and would buy things like this in all be it in large volumes. They would also have to hit Morso's high quality amd reliabily requirements. I have sold in excess of 70 in the last year with no returns or complaints at all. A

Morso do one, £36 inc VAT. It will do all you need. A