Yorkshireman

Tree firm fined after teenage worker loses toes on wood chipper

I fully endorse this , well worth it

Ditto ............

Hi Ben its as described not very easy , in fact far from it , its as much about driving habit and road awareness than it is about positioning & reversing techniques its well worth investing in some training before you apply for a date,

really thats a decision only you can take , perhaps a call to the acas employees phoneline. be mindful that you have no right to bring a claim for unfair dismissal unless you have been there 24 months.. but ring acas

http://www.OakdaleLtd.com Home - arbschool.co.uk :: Arb Kit :: Whitby B&B Townend Farm Bed & Breakfast, B&B Whitby Townend Farm

some very good rugby ,,well done too both sides...second half should be a belter

lmao very good

hi Jamie good i hope it can work ,,yes its a shame about the briefing ,but its a tough old life a good point often forgotten I noted a number of threads where guys are struggling either individuals to find employment ,companies struggling to make ends meet , selling kit or even worse sacking staff I wish the media would stop inferring that the last one out should turn the countrys light off ... good luck if you want a sounding board then Im sure you can find me but for tonight ,, good night

Hi Jamie I have a vast array of knowledge , from areas outside of the tree world , I see the frustration of many I see the brillant work done by many I know the heart breaking feeling of failure of those who aspire only to have their and their empollyees dreams smashed I see the injustice done by the current system where the rogues profit , when the good fail beacuse they have too many hurdles to clear . legislation is great when it a level playing field but when schools & the like can & do employ bloke in a white van using rigger boots, jeans and top handled saws on the ground when these public funded bodies can get away with it then the altruist goals we all share... mean sod all ,, as it costs money to stay in business , to do all those things that are required to give oppurtunity to those who ,like us love this way of life I have no axe to grind, I am happy to help and as a lantra awards Arb sector training provider probably would gain from a focus on personal skills however , I am a simple man who 13 years ago set up a tree businees with a 5,000 loan and built on that with a load of pain , joy frustration and happiness. I see this from many sides as the contractor as the employers as the aspiring new business owner, as a training provider as an Nptc assessor many many roles ,, I write as a realistic take on what is proposed.. some you will agree with others you will disregard and thats you choice ,, but please remember there are more people in this industry other than those who can articulate their feelings & thoughts and in additon to those who will express their held opinions and are perhaps different to those who are in the steering groups especially where those consultees may be the same people merely wearing a different hat sat on a different chair.. will can all perhaps be guilty of believing that we are doing is the right and proper thing for the right and proper reasons. BUT if it doesnt make sense or doesnt gain industry approval [and that does not solely mean the big boys ,, this industry is as was idnetified the lantra study document Andy clark posted are of 1-4 employees] .as those business owners cant afford the luxury or even want it ,,>? as they already make these decisions day in week out , as if they didnt their business would faiil and their house would be repossesed. As I have said thorughout I support a positive but if that is being imposed from the top down with a dog matic approach it will get exactly what it deserves... I arent saying that this is what you are trying to do but I offer that as a truthful assessment of settiment of rank file arbo's out there I had hoped to attend stonleigh to contribute ,,, but I live in the north country far from where proper arborists live and it would have incurred too much cost burden for an altruistic event where my input may not have been worth the expenditure

well done Andy a very worthwhile commitment ,,

Jamie if you mis understand me I must have not made my point you say you expect the industry to police my point is we already do !! as if not it would assume those contractor left to chance the proportionate reasonable and safe conduct of the service[s[ they supply, and by default it would follow there would be many more injury, fatalities and prosections,, so they do police themselves now !! ,, as to do otherwise would mean they are paying wages to people that are A not safe B not capable C not productive D a waste of space = the jobs a total disaster , so the job in application would be too dangerous to continue , effects of whiich would mean that the client does not get value for money, the job is of poor quality or is not delivered , which in commercial terms mean the company would not get paid for these services this would mean the company goes out of business ,, as they cant make money !! or they would not do business in any meaningful way save those who already fly below the radar ,, who wouldn't engage anyway as they dont bother now !! therefore to not currently self police is bad business practise, which means We do already self police which reflects the fact that businesses employers are ultimately credible ,viable and continue to employ people like we have for years. I have had all sorts of applicants from deadheads who dont know their own shoe size to those on the complete opposite end of the spectrum ,, the scheme seems to suggest that we need someone to tell us what level someone needs to be to fit our business need ,, thanks whilst I am in support of progress I do know of many out in 'contracting world' whose take on this suggestion would be who died & made you the boss >> over my business ? as they are the person who have to ensure they have bid on and secured enough work to enable their skilled guys with support of equipment and provision to ensure enough turnover [profit ] is left over to pay the wages on a friday afernoon sorry if I wasnt clear earlier

thanks for the endorsement this is something that I am passionate about , as you may note from our new training provision. Arbschool I note from your response that you expect the industry to self police , which forgive my misunderstanding of the impact but thats what happens now !! so a casual observer might ask ... why would industry want it to be more complex ! self police now or self police later wiith more costs ,,,, >?

out side of the too's and fro's lets hope that the founder of this fantastic web forum Mr S Bullman equally is remunerated by this scheme in the development of a scheme where some will no doubt earn a crust. as it clearly seems you are using this forum as a sounding board to best develop a scheme that is still in development should it get off the ground. as other advertisers have to pay for this kind of exposure let alone the benefits of proofing the concept , etc Iain

director ,, web administrator, consultant ,problem solver, client liaison ,procurement manager, quailty assurance manager, h&s rep , business development man or the bloke where the buck stops, he who keeps all those plates on sticks spinning all at the same time all could be tagged as chief bottle wash'' or dogs body

nice one

Hello Ian this is not my thread As I know there are many levels of operator and business alike out in the real world I merely add my thoughts, to which I of course welcome your response . I can't say I support or oppose this, in principle any positive enhancement to the credibility of the industry is a good thing with one caveat it should not exclude, those who perhaps don’t want too join in, most importantly have the ability or funds to participate.. training & education costs can be a high hill to climb. we all set business and personal goals, however as a realist I know that for many out there the bank balance is the ultimate leveler. not the aspiration to progress, some employers can and do pay for staff cpd to encourage advancement that others employers simply wont or perhaps through finance can't. I know of many disgruntled employers who have paid for staff training [ which they are obliged to do ] only for that staff member to resign and leave the business which leaves the business not only meet their skills short fall in the short term, but the financial implication of filling that funding & the need perhaps for the next employee also businesses invest in people in order that they might mutually benefit from increased safety & productivity In Law employers cannot stop monies to cover these eventualities.. even a signed waiver is dubious should it be taken to tribunal Its a sad truth that training is a burden that some employers wont bear.. despite the need too. Even government funded bodies dont do all that they might as with the recent reccession many budgets for training were one of the first casualties for downsizing. That is equally if not more so reflected in the commercial world where a business finds it harder to stay trading then perhaps the worse the impact in this area. Most employers I speak to want to provide a safe a working place and provide their teams with all the good things to work with, having recieved right and proper training ,,. Sadly its the elephant in the room It is a fact that micro & small businesses dont have the money to play with that larger and perhaps national companies have. so when it comes down to the wire corners get cut to save jobs which saves families from hardship. So what could be done ? perhaps an alteration to the legislation re training costs for those leaving within a given period would help Mid / large players but for the micro & small this I feel should in some way be enhanced further to more widely promote those initiatives that already exist. there are some schemes out there that will give Level 2 & 3 funding but these are not widely explained or promoted

Hi Paul all received , thanks for your input thoughts and comments no doubt of use to those who will be in the steering group a diverse cross section of opinion will no doubt assist in ironing out issues prior to them arising Iain

of interest this is an HSE endorsed event , for those seeking to engage arboricultural contractors. Held at Stoneleigh. with an interesting speaker list Invite to Arboricultural SHADs.pdf Arb SHAD Programme.pdf

some very interesting comments however in my opinion drawing parity between Arb & the Petro chemicals industry is a TOTAL misunderstanding of the issues faced by the grass root companies involved within the amenity / urban Arboriculture sectors. I haven’t yet seen a petrochemical refinery next to those horses tied at the side of the road with the caravans. Though the Utility Arb’ sector could perhaps be drawn into industrial comparisons. Comments alluding too the Rogue traders As I understand these issues are primarily from those Persons who are happy to fly below the radar , i.e. the bodge it & scarper brigade, Those persons are from a diverse cross section of society’s social groups........... These are practioneers who don’t care about rules or the customer anyway. I know of a chap who has traded for years using a chainsaw to carryout aspects of his business & has over the years reduced the length of several fingers thanks to his lack of ability using a chainsaw ,, This doesnt stop him from competing for clients to my knowledge the HSe have never knocked on his door. Nor has it stopped customers giving his company work. These Traders are in my opinion far from the level of those hard working business people who attempt to do the right thing and make every effort to build and retain their good name and reputation with their client base, As we all know we have a multi tiered industry much of which is in practise totally unregulated or in any way policed. until its too late. by stopping the rogue element we do not have a level playing field that could be said for an industry such as the Petro chemical giants . Perhaps as a means to stop this re occurring tim & time again programmes could educate the Home / Land owner that they by law hold liability / responsibility to the safety of those persons they engage and implications of their actions toward property & the person or those person who may come into contact or be influenced by those works is it enough to just highlight poorly executed ,expensive or dangerous works.. ? re " If we want our industry to get government funding / recognition in the future we as an industry HAVE to develop this. Failure to do so is not an option." WHO Exactly is WE ??? and in what way would these funds be forth coming ? So who is going to police these levels of professionalism .. ? How will they ensure that they will have sufficient resources and funds to police this ? Are we expecting the insurance industry to do so on our behalf ? their involvement wont resolve the issue of the under radar brigade as most of these are not trained let alone insured ! So perhaps the machinery / ppe suppliers who service the sector may enter into a voluntarily control re the sale of equipment to those who are deemed not professional ..? Not Likely ! as they will then have issue staying afloat.. + the private person has a right to buy equipment for own use , or internet sales form Ebay and overseas sellers all of which are routes for the rougues or none professionals to get their hands on industry grade Kit etc. Will the policing body enforce action on clients who employ persons who are not within the scheme ? Given the current economic climate the client often goes for the cheapest quote .. Not the best,, the cheapest !! if so How ? as it will be expensive to fund the time & effort expended to police such a scheme. this seems unlikely. as The Hse don’t have enough resources now ! Will the funds from individual contributions to the scheme be sufficient to fund the implementation , application and policing ? If as is stated previously this scheme is intended for those NEW entrants how long will it take to build funds & how would anyone know who is newbie or an old codger ? .. for example an 18/ 19 year old apprentice currently in the industry is likely to be in this line of work for 20 -25 years and that person wont contribute throughout their career so where’s the money coming from ??? There are an abundance of willing entrants to the industry ,with a finite requirement for people on the ground. Are ‘We the industry’ expecting government to fund this ? Given the level of cut backs to front line Military & Police numbers, ministerial budgets, Local government budgets and the like, I doubt there will be little appetite for funding this scheme, but I maybe wrong Mention was made relevant to growing companies that have grown beyond a man a van & a bod to feed the chipper and whose owner doesn’t now have time to engage on Arbtalk.. These companies also hold a massive cost burden, due to infrastructure costs that are required in achieving such advancements, which leads to their pricing structure increasing to cover such items as capital expenditure , rent rates , wages , in ward investments to training, accreditation, equipment consumables, fixed costs- insurance, fuel and other associated costs + a modicum towards making a profit These companies are in the main also required to also add Vat now 20% on top of their infrastructure. All of which can lead to a price requirement that is not accepted by Businesses , organisation’s and individuals who seek THE MOST COMPETITIVE QUOTE from which there is not a lot left ... so where will another burden lead ? More mechanisation to increase productivity ! = less staff = less members of the scheme or perhaps Exactly to the same result as we have now , a multi layered industry , excellence is an aspiration which is only acheiveable for those who can afford it.. which can only be afforded if ther income allows this which requires support by their clients ....... So who are these clients that can afford it Petro chemicals sector ? but they dont have many trees. Utilities ? And then we have left over the rest of the industry who have to do their level best to stay in the industry and business they love whilst in competition with operators who are under the radar, who it strikes me are much more profitable than those who comply with a raft of rules regulations & aspirations to achieve more but are restrained due to their income streams. We have within the ranks of our industry some excellent and dedicated practitioners, who irrespective of their age or their prowess ability or academic qualifications simply want do a good job safely, It would give me great pleasure to see our industry rise in the nations eye, because of reasons above & more besides I doubt this will dramatically alter .. because cash is king and budgets are being squeezed until 2018 and whilst the media strive to talk down the economic recovery there will be desire for the client to take the cheapest option & there in lies the issue.. I do not believe this is an issue that industry that can change solely without the support of the client base .. and without that fundamental change I see a multi tier future for many many years ahead. Those who dont care / those who care but cant afford to comply & those lucky enough to have a chioce.. Some of the most successfully businesses are not driven by academics as this is a practical industry, we can all talk about the influences risk hazards & health matters and how all these affect the built environment we have constructed .. the simple fact remains without the operatives then this industry is stuffed many of the best operators it has been my pleasure to see & work with are far from academic many of these people struggle with paperwork let alone study for qualifications many other don’t see the need as they've been at the game too long and/or can’t achieve these qualifications due to learning ability issues. ie dyslexia It would therefore in my opinion be totally wrong of the industry to put an academic Glass ceiling above these peoples heads. There are many dyslexics & none academics in Arboriculture that’s why they are here As it is an outdoor career that keeps them physically fit & offers a mental challenge like no other can. please remember these people are Professionals too…. best regards Iain

last day today .. our shoot has 128% of released birds shot ... Easy-lift Guy coyote shooting sound bizarre, we're pigeon blasting next ..

i might have to find a spare field around here then

and plenty of ex regt doing cp work too ,,,

yep very good in 2004 BUT in the late eighties me and my station buddys where deemed to be better than this lot at standard square bashing drill in front of H M... when she visited our little station near Tadcaster their Swo kept them drilling for hours and then there was a bit of a chat in the mess & naffi bar later lol ... bloody good though

if you'd like to look at our training options Arboriculture - arbschool.co.uk