Pick-up speed limits

[aspenarb]

A bit of blurb on car derived vans, visibility to the rear plays a roll in classification on larger vans vs minibuses.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles

 

Bob

[Mark Bolam]

The speed limit on my Transit tipper is 87mph.

I tested it on the M4 on the way to the Arb show a few years back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

[Justme]

place your bets gentlemen

 

Assuming your 60mph you think you were doing is right, No NIP in post is my bet.

 

60mph on speedo will be about 55mph for real.

 

If your local police use the recommended formula then, 50mph limit + 10% + 2 = 57mph.

 

Or NIP in post but when asked for the photo they will see the Transit actually set the speed camera off not you.

[Treewolf]

Oh well, looks like I will be testing the theories about speed limits now

 

Last night at 6.30pm (dusk fast approaching) I passed a digital speed camera - tripod mounted & in a field gateway with a police operator

 

A ROAD and I was doing an indicated 60mph or thereabouts on the speedo, or a smidgen less - so with a 10% calibration reduction tolerance we will see what the postman brings

 

A Transit Connect was overtaking me as I passed the speed camera operator which was an interesting conundrum - no doubt he'll get done as he should have been doing 50mph

 

Hilux Invincible 3.0l Auto & no canopy

 

EU classification stated MASS in Service on v5c is 2055kg

 

Kerb Weight, stated by Toyota is 2030 kg

 

Unladen weight will be well below the 2040kg DVLA & VOSA ...,DPV ruling

 

The next 14 days ......place your bets gentlemen

 

Nothing will happen, since (a) you were not committing and offence, and (b) DVSA/PNC does not hold records of unladen weights and hence cannot discriminate between a DPV and something which looks like a DPV but is too heavy to be one.

 

Are you sure it was a speed check not a VED check?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Have you got to the bottom of it ?

 

No....

 

Genuinely gave up the will to ask any more questions!

 

The last response I got was 23 September (which referred to a really current and valid (not) 2013 special notice):

 

Good morning Kevin

 

As per call the other day. Link to MOT special notice

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/211998/SN_4-2013.pdf

 

It does refer to over 3000kg but Sean Matthews at DVSA (01179542530) was very clear that it falls within class 4. Toyota quoted weight includes 90% full fuel tank (full tank 80 litres/80 kg)

 

Speed limits as previously discussed.

 

ETA at the moment is end of October but could change.

 

Have a good weekend

 

Kind Regards

 

It seems a simple question that nobody is able/willing to answer. (swear) it! I'll take me chances!

[Stoatally]

It should have been made clearer, as that special notice suggests in that the test regs were supposed to have been amended to remove dual purpose. Hat would leave us with up to 3000kg gross as class 4 and 3000-3500 kg as class 7.

 

No-one had the balls to make the change so we're stuck with the old dpv. I also imagine that brexit will mean we're unlikely to adopt the easier European classification either.

[Johnnyboxer]

 

Are you sure it was a speed check not a VED check?

 

Definitely a speed camera - it's like a Police anti-speed state up here in North Yorkshire with 12-16 Camera Vans and 4 Police Bikes, with tripod mounted digital speed cameras

[Treewolf]

It should have been made clearer, as that special notice suggests in that the test regs were supposed to have been amended to remove dual purpose. Hat would leave us with up to 3000kg gross as class 4 and 3000-3500 kg as class 7.

 

No-one had the balls to make the change so we're stuck with the old dpv. I also imagine that brexit will mean we're unlikely to adopt the easier European classification either.

 

That special notice has caused massive confusion at every level, and was one of the issues for which I sought specific clarification from DVSA (see my post much earlier in this thread).

 

At present there is a potential probelm which testers face with DPVs, in that they have to know the unladen weight of the vehicle in order to determine if it is a DPV or not (for example two near identical 4x4 pickups, one has an unlande weight of 2030KG and therefore is a DPV and hence class 4 test, one has an unladen weight of 2045KG and therefore isn't a DPV and hence class 7 test).

 

The problem that the tester faces is that the unladen weight is not recorded on any official database, so he cannot with certainty make the correct decision about test class. The current sitaution is that there is a specific permission from DVSA for him to test a vehicle which appears, based on his judgement, to be a DPV as though it legally definitely is a DPV.

 

The special notice mentioned above was issued several years ago and announced that DVSA was soon to remove this specific permission, with the result that the tester could no longer rely upon his judgement alone and err in favour of the vehicle being a DPV. The reason given for the removal of this permission was an intention to remove the DPV classification from the MOT test regulations only, so that all DPVs would be tested as Class 7 Light Goods. Note, and this is very important, that this proposed change to the MOT regulations does not remove the DPV vehicle type definition, does not affect speed limits, or anything like that, it simply says that a DPV no longer gets tested as Class 4, it now gets tested as Class 7.

 

The fact is however that the MOT test regulations have not yet been changed to remove the DPV Class 4 provision, and as a result the tester still has the authority of DVSA to test a vehicle which appears to be a DPV as a DPV, ie as Class 4.

 

Bottom line, if your vehicle genuinely is a DPV, it should be tested as class 4. If your vehicle appears to be a DPV but could possibly be slightly over the unladen weight limit, the tester can still opt to test as class 4.

[openspaceman]

 

The fact is however that the MOT test regulations have not yet been changed to remove the DPV Class 4 provision, and as a result the tester still has the authority of DVSA to test a vehicle which appears to be a DPV as a DPV, ie as Class 4.

 

Bottom line, if your vehicle genuinely is a DPV, it should be tested as class 4. If your vehicle appears to be a DPV but could possibly be slightly over the unladen weight limit, the tester can still opt to test as class 4.

 

I don't see it is a big problem in that we know the definition for DPV allows it to be treated as a car for speed limits.

 

We also know a commercial vehicle with a MAM of over 3000kg requires a class 7 test.

 

So the notice essentially says if the MAM on the VIN plate is more than 3000 then apply class7 MOT, if less then class 4. I wasn't happy to accept paying an extra £5 to test my LR 110 which was a DPV and had a MAM of 3050 but it wasn't worth arguing over.

 

This now seems sensible to me without affecting anything else about the use of a DPV.

[Stoatally]

Note, and this is very important, that this proposed change to the MOT regulations does not remove the DPV vehicle type definition,

 

That was, IIRC, the intention at the time. The message given out to the trade was that we would be changing to the Euro style M1/N1 passenger / goods classification and DPV would be completely removed making it 'easier' to determine goods vehicle as based clearly on GVW/DGW.

 

We also know a commercial vehicle with a MAM of over 3000kg requires a class 7 test.

 

So the notice essentially says if the MAM on the VIN plate is more than 3000 then apply class7 MOT, if less then class 4.

 

No - not true when you consider the commercial side of Dual Purpose e.g. pick-ups, crew vans mess vans etc. If a commercial vehicle meets the requirements of DPV then it is a class 4 NOT 7. This would lead to a potential issue that the vehicle has an incorrect class MOT test in place and could be a point to argue its not valid.