How do i take on Ebay?

[felixthelogchopper]

How does that work with parties in different jurisdictions ?

 

Somewhere in Ebay's T and Cs there will be something stating which laws apply. If both seller and buyer are in the UK, I would suspect that UK law would apply. In a simple auction such as Ebay, a seller is legally bound to sell the article to the highest bidder as soon as a bid is placed, unless the article or its ownership can be shown to be not as described eg a car in mint condition is found by the owner/seller to have faults or be the subject of disputed title. Ebay offers the option of putting a reserve price on any item to be sold and it was the seller's choice not to do so. The buyer(OP) has two possible outcomes to pursue. Firstly, the seller providing the goods at the highest bid at the fall of the hammer (order from the court known as a decree of specific performance) or getting the buyer to pay the difference between the highest bid price and the cost of a comparable substitute item. It's all Contract Law 101.

[peatff]

Recovering costs from a busted ebay sale is a simple matter, a lot of people don't take the ebay auction seriously and end up in small claims so there is a lot of appropriate "precedent" for the magistrates to follow.

 

In order to fail in your claim you would have to muck up pretty spectacularly.

 

Once the seller realises the potential CCJ heading their way they usually toe the line. Its just a shame it gets to that stage

 

According to the original post there are no costs yet as the seller has refused to sell. He can't blame eBay for the deal going south and they will help him recover any costs if he has paid, they refunded me from eBay funds for an item I paid for when the seller sent me something completely different. I was awarded the full cost including postage and told to dispose or keep the item.

How much did you bid on the item and what was it worth ? If you really wanted the item offer to buy it for a reasonable price as you admitted you were hoping to get it for a song. EBay is not an auction, an auction keeps going till bidding stops not at an allotted time.

[felixthelogchopper]

According to the original post there are no costs yet as the seller has refused to sell. He can't blame eBay for the deal going south and they will help him recover any costs if he has paid, they refunded me from eBay funds for an item I paid for when the seller sent me something completely different. I was awarded the full cost including postage and told to dispose or keep the item.

How much did you bid on the item and what was it worth ? If you really wanted the item offer to buy it for a reasonable price as you admitted you were hoping to get it for a song. EBay is not an auction, an auction keeps going till bidding stops not at an allotted time.

 

Ebay is an auction.

[MattyF]

He will still have to pay a sellers fee even if you don't get your item .. Does not really help you out though.

[Peasgood]

He will still have to pay a sellers fee even if you don't get your item .. Does not really help you out though.

 

Nope, all they have to do is lodge an unpaid item complaint. Had all this myself recently, ebay even removed the negative feedback I left.

 

The reason you anticipated all the "move on with life" comments is because that is exactly what you should do.

 

All the seller has to do is say it's broken, gone missing, stolen etc and you will get sweet fa no matter what you do.

[10 Bears]

All the seller has to do is say it's broken, gone missing, stolen etc and you will get sweet fa no matter what you do.

 

Unfortunately, this comment above is absolutely correct. The seller can simply refuse to sell the item if they subsequently claim the item was not described properly in the advert (so was unfair), or, is not fit for sale as originally thought (again fairness), or, has suddenly become damaged...etc. etc.

 

Lots of folk have mentioned 'its a legally binding contract...' and yes it is - but it is not as straightforward as you would think in contract terms. A 'sale' is actually a formation of a contract which is based upon an "invitation to treat". What people miss out from the 'its a legally binding contract' bit, is that its actually a legally binding VOLUNTARY contract (and contract should probably more accurately as agreement). What this means in simple terms is, one person offers a price to pay and the other accepts it. The problem is, with an invitation to treat, there remains the possibility of further negotiation, and in fact the other person does not have to accept the offered price - even though a legal contract is in the process of being formed. So in actuality, you can go into Tesco and while everything has a price on it, this type of sale being an invitation to treat, you can in fact go to the till to be told you have spent £58.32, but then you can start the counter-offer, "tell you what mate, I'll give you £40 for the lot instead..." and so on until you reach an agreement where both sides are happy. Or until security are called and you are thrown into the car park and land on your chin.

 

The problem here is with online bidding, its actually not as straightforward as described above.

 

An online sale/auction is an invitation to treat also, so is broadly covered by the same as above, and relies on the bidder to tender an offer. If the seller makes no stipulation about reserve or other similar terms, then it is sold without reserve and it is implied that they will sell to the highest bidder (so depending on what it said in the advert, the OP may have due recourse here). BUT... as someone suggested earlier eBay may not actually be an auction.

 

The Sale of Goods Act (1979) states the auction, "is complete when the auctioneer announces its completion by the fall of the hammer, or in other customary manner. Until the announcement is made any bidder any retract his bid". Unfortunately, by this definition, an eBay sale is not necessarily an auction unless you try to define it under the 'customary manner' element. Although the law states a higher bid means, contractually, that a previous lower bid is null and void, apparently eBay have lawfully amended this so that a seller can accept an earlier lower bid if the winning bidder does not pay. According to the judgement of Spencer and Harding, "he absence of any specific wording such as "and we undertake to sell to the highest bidder" rebutted any presumption that the Defendants (read eBay seller) had intended to be bound by a contract".

 

So, while I feel for the OP as this is a massive pain when someone does you over like this, ultimately, I feel the seller will get away with it (rightly or wrongly. In fact, its mostly wrong).

 

Just this week I was buying a quad bike on eBay, I had visited the local seller to see the item before auction end, and made him a good offer. He kept me waiting while the auction crept up, and then after it had finished sent me a text admitting his mate had bought it by accident as he had 'told him to bid it up' (shill bidding), and asked if I still wanted it at the price I offered in the week. In short, I said no and reported him to eBay. He will still get away without any punishment, despite admitting to committing fraud.

 

The point is, eBay is a murky world where not everything is fair and lots of people abuse the system. There are some good folk on there of course, but IME there are many that will take advantage and do things like this to the OP.

 

It always comes back to, buyer beware...

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Unfortunately, this comment above is absolutely correct. The seller can simply refuse to sell the item if they subsequently claim the item was not described properly in the advert (so was unfair), or, is not fit for sale as originally thought (again fairness), or, has suddenly become damaged...etc. etc.

 

Lots of folk have mentioned 'its a legally binding contract...' and yes it is - but it is not as straightforward as you would think in contract terms. A 'sale' is actually a formation of a contract which is based upon an "invitation to treat". What people miss out from the 'its a legally binding contract' bit, is that its actually a legally binding VOLUNTARY contract (and contract should probably more accurately as agreement). What this means in simple terms is, one person offers a price to pay and the other accepts it. The problem is, with an invitation to treat, there remains the possibility of further negotiation, and in fact the other person does not have to accept the offered price - even though a legal contract is in the process of being formed. So in actuality, you can go into Tesco and while everything has a price on it, this type of sale being an invitation to treat, you can in fact go to the till to be told you have spent £58.32, but then you can start the counter-offer, "tell you what mate, I'll give you £40 for the lot instead..." and so on until you reach an agreement where both sides are happy. Or until security are called and you are thrown into the car park and land on your chin.

 

The problem here is with online bidding, its actually not as straightforward as described above.

 

An online sale/auction is an invitation to treat also, so is broadly covered by the same as above, and relies on the bidder to tender an offer. If the seller makes no stipulation about reserve or other similar terms, then it is sold without reserve and it is implied that they will sell to the highest bidder (so depending on what it said in the advert, the OP may have due recourse here). BUT... as someone suggested earlier eBay may not actually be an auction.

 

The Sale of Goods Act (1979) states the auction, "is complete when the auctioneer announces its completion by the fall of the hammer, or in other customary manner. Until the announcement is made any bidder any retract his bid". Unfortunately, by this definition, an eBay sale is not necessarily an auction unless you try to define it under the 'customary manner' element. Although the law states a higher bid means, contractually, that a previous lower bid is null and void, apparently eBay have lawfully amended this so that a seller can accept an earlier lower bid if the winning bidder does not pay. According to the judgement of Spencer and Harding, "he absence of any specific wording such as "and we undertake to sell to the highest bidder" rebutted any presumption that the Defendants (read eBay seller) had intended to be bound by a contract".

 

So, while I feel for the OP as this is a massive pain when someone does you over like this, ultimately, I feel the seller will get away with it (rightly or wrongly. In fact, its mostly wrong).

 

Just this week I was buying a quad bike on eBay, I had visited the local seller to see the item before auction end, and made him a good offer. He kept me waiting while the auction crept up, and then after it had finished sent me a text admitting his mate had bought it by accident as he had 'told him to bid it up' (shill bidding), and asked if I still wanted it at the price I offered in the week. In short, I said no and reported him to eBay. He will still get away without any punishment, despite admitting to committing fraud.

 

The point is, eBay is a murky world where not everything is fair and lots of people abuse the system. There are some good folk on there of course, but IME there are many that will take advantage and do things like this to the OP.

 

It always comes back to, buyer beware...

 

Great post! That shill bidding malarchy isn't confined to the potentially amateur arena of ebay either. A local (supposedly reputable) agricultural auctioneering house has been prosecuted for taking bids 'off the wall' and that reputation will always stick with them.

 

Caveat emptor and "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is' have a ring of painful reality through this unfortunate situation.

[Stubby]

Ebay is an auction.

 

Exactly . If it states auction then it is .

[Tommy_B]

What did you buy?

[10 Bears]

Exactly . If it states auction then it is .

 

I am a wheelbarrow.

 

Well, I'm not really a wheelbarrow, but I hope you see my point.

 

This may seem like semantics, but there are several differences between auctions and eBay. For an auction, you have the following:

 

• An auctioneer
  
• A registered auction house
  
• The auction house in possession of the goods
  
• A bidder tenders their individual maximum bid each time
  
• The highest bidder wins
  

 

there are a few other points, but essentially eBay does not comply with any of these.

 

A key part of eBay not being an auction is the way the bids work according to their model. If it was a real auction, then you would put in your maximum bid each time, and the seller gets that amount. On eBay, you may put in £200 as your maximum, but the last other closest bid was £125, so you win for £130. The fact that you don't win at £200, means that you have not put in your maximum bid, as you would have if this were a real auction.

 

It goes back to the sales being an invitation to treat, where offers and counter offers are made until agreement, not maximum binding bids as in a real auction.