Making the news today....

[the village idiot]

Whilst we clearly do the planet no favours at times, I often wonder if our actions pale into insignificance when compared to natural occurrences?

The huge bush fires in Australia are a natural phenomenon and probably equate to hundreds of years worth of log burning by us in the UK?

Erupting volcanoes and the gas and dust they give off?

The ice-age happened long before we had a stronghold on the planet and it is estimated that CO2 levels then were x10 what they are now!

The earth will still be here long after we are gone, no matter what we do to it.

We are effectively an insignificant species that will eventually self-destruct in what is effectively a microsecond in time compared to the life of our planet.

We will never damage our planet - just our ability to survive on it. Our biggest problem is overpopulation.

SG

 

This is true but we still should be concerned with reducing the suffering of concious creatures as much as possible before we self destruct. The fact that we are all going to die is no justification for knowingly harming others (and future others) whilst we are alive.

[WesD]

Thoughts on tonight's question time leaders special anyone?

[the village idiot]

Common ground....,at last!!!! I knew we'd find it sooner or later. [emoji106]

 

 

Timon.

 

Splendid!

[Haironyourchest]

I don't think anyone is saying that we are to blame for all of it, but we are the only entities that are able to do anything about rising global temperatures.

 

Even if we were to suppose that global warming was almost entirely due to natural-non human factors we still have a moral duty to try and bring atmospheric carbon levels down.

 

Moral duty?????? :homy:

 

(facepalm)

 

Look - in the dinosaur days the CO2 concentration was five or six times higher than is is today. There was never a time in the earth's history when biodiversity was so rich, plant life so lush and general nature so abundant. All thanks to CO2.

We are now in a CO2 famine. Plant life has been steadily sequestering CO2 and turning it into coal faster than fungal decomposition can release it back int the air. If things keep going this way all life will die out in five million years from CO2 starvation. The optimal CO2 levels for plant growth are five times higher than in ambient air...think about it.

Humans evolved to liberate the trapped CO2 and give nature enough fuel to keep life on earth going for another few hundred million years. Like yr man said - we as a species are just a punctuation mark in the history of life on earth. Its our moral duty to nature to burn ALL the fossil fuels as quickly as possible.

[Stumpy Grinder]

I don't think anyone is saying that we are to blame for all of it, but we are the only entities that are able to do anything about rising global temperatures.

 

Even if we were to suppose that global warming was almost entirely due to natural-non human factors we still have a moral duty to try and bring atmospheric carbon levels down.

 

History shows us that temperatures will vary from day to day and season to season. They also vary from year to year, decade to decade and millennium to millennium. Who was responsible for the Ice-age or was it just global cooling? The world has been warming up ever since and yet we blame ourselves for it? Carbon levels back then were 10 times what they are now and yet we still managed to evolve. Ice caps may well be in decline but the water they release and the warmth that created the melt will have beneficial effects elsewhere. As individuals, we have about 80 years on this earth if we are lucky. As a species, I believe we will self-destruct through either war, disease or famine long before the planet fails us. I do worry for the future of my children as the very near future looks pretty bleak. I don't know what the answer is, but Mr Trump pulling out of the Paris agreement will not be the demise of our planet.

SG

[the village idiot]

History shows us that temperatures will vary from day to day and season to season. They also vary from year to year, decade to decade and millennium to millennium. Who was responsible for the Ice-age or was it just global cooling? The world has been warming up ever since and yet we blame ourselves for it? Carbon levels back then were 10 times what they are now and yet we still managed to evolve. Ice caps may well be in decline but the water they release and the warmth that created the melt will have beneficial effects elsewhere. As individuals, we have about 80 years on this earth if we are lucky. As a species, I believe we will self-destruct through either war, disease or famine long before the planet fails us. I do worry for the future of my children as the very near future looks pretty bleak. I don't know what the answer is, but Mr Trump pulling out of the Paris agreement will not be the demise of our planet.

SG

 

We are arguing at cross purposes here.

 

My argument is simply that if we have the ability to reduce atmospheric carbon levels and thereby slow or stop increasing global temperatures then we must try to do it.

I don't understand the argument that there's no point trying to control something that is going to cause suffering to humans just because humans aren't going to be around in the future.

[Stumpy Grinder]

Thoughts on tonight's question time leaders special anyone?

 

Watched it all (with a pre-biased opinion towards the Tories). Some awkward questions to Mrs May which I think she answered very well and honestly. The audience seemed to be more evenly biased this time which was refreshing. Awkward moments about 'U Turns' and how a previous voter to remain could steer us through Brexit, but once again some valid and respectable answers and positive manifesto promises.

Mr Corbyn was very confident and gave a good account of his policy, but I'm not sure the audience were quite so confident of his ambitions?

He would clearly get 'arse-raped' in Europe with his views to cut us a good deal in the Eu single market! Better to walk away with no deal rather than a bad one after two years of discussion which is inevitable in my opinion. He also completely avoided the nuclear threat questions and eluded to the fact that he would still be trying to negotiate with a rogue state when we would all be melting following the blinding flash, whilst our own red button was still guarded and never to be pressed!

Nuclear weapons are surely only a deterrent if you are prepared to use them in anger?????? That stance concerns me a lot!!

After the nurse saying her wages have not gone up for years, his claim to raise the minimum wage by 33% is little more than a vote winning joke which shows no understanding of the consequences! He claims to protect small businesses to cover the extra wages but where will the money come from? There is also no consideration that most employers will either reduce employees or simply pass the extra cost onto the consumer. There is also no consideration as to the 'knock on' effect of this wage increase. Let's consider a hypothetical office where 3 people work. The office manager is currently on £10/Hr. The office assistant is on £8.50/Hr and the office junior is on £7.50/Hr. You can't just put them all on £10/Hr !!

Wages reflect the rank and responsibility within a company so you can't just increase the wage at the bottom without a similar percentile increase above. Now see what you have created? A 33% increase in wages for the entire population?

How the hell are you going to fund that?

What annoyed me the most though as an ex army guy, was the fact that he denied any support to terrorism, despite being photographed in numerous poses with top IRA personalities and even at IRA funerals.

As I said at the start of this reply, I am tory biased, but for good reason.

We live in a democracy and it is your choice who you vote for.

Labour left us in a world of hurt during their last stay in office, with the hilarious message left in the safe that there was no money left!

They said today that they will create 1 million 'good' jobs? Really? Where and with who?

In reality, even if they could create 1 million 'Good' jobs, it will probably not cover the unemployment created by the ridiculous raise in minimum wage!

Despite numerous unreliable polls, I am very confident that the working population of this country will vote to continue the working ethos and vote for conservative next week.

SG

[Commando]

I also watched the whole debate. Same old guff from Corbyn. He swerved and steered most questions back to these pre learnt statements he's comfortable with and that he spews out every time.

TBH I struggle to look at the man, as said before you can see it eating him up from inside having to state that 'the party have decided to back Trident' etc. I'd love to see the results of a polygraph.

The man is a vile creature who will promise whatever he thinks the electorate want to hear.

How those in the labour heartlands of Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham can support such a creature, who was colluding with PIRA terrorists whilst they were bringing death and destruction to those very cities is beyond me!

UK needs to wake up, the man is a treacherous, morally bankrupt fraud who would drag the country back to the 1970's.

[daveindales]

I also watched the whole debate. Same old guff from Corbyn. He swerved and steered most questions back to these pre learnt statements he's comfortable with and that he spews out every time.

TBH I struggle to look at the man, as said before you can see it eating him up from inside having to state that 'the party have decided to back Trident' etc. I'd love to see the results of a polygraph.

The man is a vile creature who will promise whatever he thinks the electorate want to hear.

How those in the labour heartlands of Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham can support such a creature, who was colluding with PIRA terrorists whilst they were bringing death and destruction to those very cities is beyond me!

UK needs to wake up, the man is a treacherous, morally bankrupt fraud who would drag the country back to the 1970's.

 

Agreed.

[WesD]

Watched it all (with a pre-biased opinion towards the Tories). Some awkward questions to Mrs May which I think she answered very well and honestly. The audience seemed to be more evenly biased this time which was refreshing. Awkward moments about 'U Turns' and how a previous voter to remain could steer us through Brexit, but once again some valid and respectable answers and positive manifesto promises.

 

Mr Corbyn was very confident and gave a good account of his policy, but I'm not sure the audience were quite so confident of his ambitions?

 

He would clearly get 'arse-raped' in Europe with his views to cut us a good deal in the Eu single market! Better to walk away with no deal rather than a bad one after two years of discussion which is inevitable in my opinion. He also completely avoided the nuclear threat questions and eluded to the fact that he would still be trying to negotiate with a rogue state when we would all be melting following the blinding flash, whilst our own red button was still guarded and never to be pressed!

 

Nuclear weapons are surely only a deterrent if you are prepared to use them in anger?????? That stance concerns me a lot!!

 

After the nurse saying her wages have not gone up for years, his claim to raise the minimum wage by 33% is little more than a vote winning joke which shows no understanding of the consequences! He claims to protect small businesses to cover the extra wages but where will the money come from? There is also no consideration that most employers will either reduce employees or simply pass the extra cost onto the consumer. There is also no consideration as to the 'knock on' effect of this wage increase. Let's consider a hypothetical office where 3 people work. The office manager is currently on £10/Hr. The office assistant is on £8.50/Hr and the office junior is on £7.50/Hr. You can't just put them all on £10/Hr !!

 

Wages reflect the rank and responsibility within a company so you can't just increase the wage at the bottom without a similar percentile increase above. Now see what you have created? A 33% increase in wages for the entire population?

 

How the hell are you going to fund that?

 

What annoyed me the most though as an ex army guy, was the fact that he denied any support to terrorism, despite being photographed in numerous poses with top IRA personalities and even at IRA funerals.

 

As I said at the start of this reply, I am tory biased, but for good reason.

 

We live in a democracy and it is your choice who you vote for.

 

Labour left us in a world of hurt during their last stay in office, with the hilarious message left in the safe that there was no money left!

 

They said today that they will create 1 million 'good' jobs? Really? Where and with who?

 

In reality, even if they could create 1 million 'Good' jobs, it will probably not cover the unemployment created by the ridiculous raise in minimum wage!

 

Despite numerous unreliable polls, I am very confident that the working population of this country will vote to continue the working ethos and vote for conservative next week.

 

SG

 

 

Yes also ex army and his lack of defence bothered me too.

 

When questioned on the £10 per hour wages by the owner of a small accountant firms he said he/government would help businesses that couldn't afford to pay the increase in wages, do we need more subsidies/benefits? He wouldn't answer the question on will businesses move abroad and also if min wage is £10 per hour will benefits increase to be in line with low earners?

 

When pressed on how he'll pay for his lovely manifesto he said with corporation tax rises and OTHER taxes but no rise in NI or VAT, what are these other taxes? Labour are the kings of stealth taxing.

 

I'm a floating voter I put my X where I feel best rewards me and my family, it ain't a hard choice this year.

 

Labour need a name change, gone are the days where they favour the working man.