Making the news today....

[Squaredy]

1 hour ago, Johnsond said:

The wind and solar power myth has finally been exposed

WWW.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

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The necessary miracle doesn't exist

Am interesting article, admittedly not from today 😞

As most people (myself included) do not subscribe to the telegraph can you summarise the article so we may learn what this myth is please?

[openspaceman]

2 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

As most people (myself included) do not subscribe to the telegraph can you summarise the article so we may learn what this myth is please?

As expected from a right wing rag it was an article pointing out the need for storage of electricity made from renewables and extolling nuclear power as the solution, because that benefits large corporations, when in fact as you and I know for personal use for the summer and most of spring and autumn one day's storage suffices.

 

For PV the hungry gap in November to January is what needs addressing, wind less so.

 

In the meanwhile better weather forecasting means that our biggest traditional generators can be scheduled to come on stream when needed, coupled with current pumped storage.

 

And yes we must remain dependent on natural gas for a fair while yet and will have to pay for under utilising their capacity when not needed, in just the same way we pay to curtail wind power currently because the national grid has not the capacity needed.

 

For the last few weeks I have been curtailing my solar PV production because it is capable of producing more than I use or can export. This is because it is sized to produce what I need in the shoulder months before I have to import in deep winter.

[coppice cutter]

5 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

................ better weather forecasting

I was going to say that that is a joke.

 

But actually the consistent decline in quality of information from the Met Office has gotten to the stage that it has caused so many losses and so much distress amongst those who previously relied on it that it is no longer at all funny.

[Mark J]

15 minutes ago, coppice cutter said:

I was going to say that that is a joke.

 

But actually the consistent decline in quality of information from the Met Office has gotten to the stage that it has caused so many losses and so much distress amongst those who previously relied on it that it is no longer at all funny.

ESA - New weather satellite reveals spectacular images of Earth

WWW.ESA.INT

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Europe’s latest weather satellite, the Meteosat Third Generation Imager, has just delivered its first view of Earth – revealing conditions over Europe, Africa and the Atlantic in remarkable...

 

[openspaceman]

13 minutes ago, coppice cutter said:

I was going to say that that is a joke.

 

But actually the consistent decline in quality of information from the Met Office has gotten to the stage that it has caused so many losses and so much distress amongst those who previously relied on it that it is no longer at all funny.

Strange, I don't depend on it but do check the forecast coupled with the rain radar if I need a clear spell to do something outside and don't have problems. It is good at predicting wind in the context of wind turbines which is why they called for consumption reductions 22 times in the last winter, as well a just testing the concept.

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, Squaredy said:

As most people (myself included) do not subscribe to the telegraph can you summarise the article so we may learn what this myth is please?

I don’t subscribe neither the article I read wasn’t behind a paywall at the time. 

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

As expected from a right wing rag it was an article pointing out the need for storage of electricity made from renewables and extolling nuclear power as the solution, because that benefits large corporations, when in fact as you and I know for personal use for the summer and most of spring and autumn one day's storage suffices.

 

For PV the hungry gap in November to January is what needs addressing, wind less so.

 

In the meanwhile better weather forecasting means that our biggest traditional generators can be scheduled to come on stream when needed, coupled with current pumped storage.

 

And yes we must remain dependent on natural gas for a fair while yet and will have to pay for under utilising their capacity when not needed, in just the same way we pay to curtail wind power currently because the national grid has not the capacity needed.

 

For the last few weeks I have been curtailing my solar PV production because it is capable of producing more than I use or can export. This is because it is sized to produce what I need in the shoulder months before I have to import in deep winter.

I’m just curious and in no way contradicting what you are saying but how are the profits currently being made within the wind industry any different or less  attractive to corporations than the profits being made by say nuclear energy providers??. I have been involved in the offshore side of things with the wind energy industry and have seen firsthand the absolute free for all cash cow that this has become for predominantly overseas companies. Regarding the solar energy/storage set up you mentioned what may I ask was the installation cost and the projected break even point, and does this provide you with all the power you require on a day to day basis Ive a neighbour up here in Aberdeenshire looking to put in a system that’s costing him around 15k he estimates 8 years to break even and is only putting it up as his air source heat pump system  is proving to be horrendously expensive to run. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Johnsond

[Squaredy]

55 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

I’m just curious and in no way contradicting what you are saying but how are the profits currently being made within the wind industry any different or less  attractive to corporations than the profits being made by say nuclear energy providers??. I have been involved in the offshore side of things with the wind energy industry and have seen firsthand the absolute free for all cash cow that this has become for predominantly overseas companies. Regarding the solar energy/storage set up you mentioned what may I ask was the installation cost and the projected break even point, and does this provide you with all the power you require on a day to day basis Ive a neighbour up here in Aberdeenshire looking to put in a system that’s costing him around 15k he estimates 8 years to break even and is only putting it up as his air source heat pump system  is proving to be horrendously expensive to run. 

If he is spending £15,000 to save nearly two thousand per year that sounds like a decent investment.  I would do that if I could.  Actually, I would look at the possibility of doing some work myself to reduce cost.  But when you think many people spend £15,000 on a car which is a terrible investment you could argue.

[openspaceman]

23 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

I’m just curious and in no way contradicting what you are saying but how are the profits currently being made within the wind industry any different or less  attractive to corporations than the profits being made by say nuclear energy providers??. I have been involved in the offshore side of things with the wind energy industry and have seen firsthand the absolute free for all cash cow that this has become for predominantly overseas companies. Regarding the solar energy/storage set up you mentioned what may I ask was the installation cost and the projected break even point, and does this provide you with all the power you require on a day to day basis Ive a neighbour up here in Aberdeenshire looking to put in a system that’s costing him around 15k he estimates 8 years to break even and is only putting it up as his air source heat pump system  is proving to be horrendously expensive to run. 

Big capital builds, like HS2, Nuclear power stations, offshore wind farms as well as petroleum/natural gas exploitation favour big business, in the form of corporatocracy, a sort of monopoly caused by the limited number of organisations with the ability to fund and organise the work with government collusion, whereas an individual can make the decision to buy electricity storage, PV panels, even possibly a wind turbine and get a return on investment.

 

Okay so the Chinese firms that make the equipment are big businesses but because there is competition  the prices are reasonable.  We know from HS2 where costs are not controlled by competition leading to massive price over running.

 

 

Yes it is a dreadful shame that British companies could not compete in the market because Thatcher felt we could live off the backs of our finacial sector, big mistake IMO. We had been in general decline since 1918 and paying for loans from america in the war years was the clincher. We never developed a business philosophy to replace the colonial era.

 

My system paid for itself in 10 years and because of the FIT subsequent payments have paid for the battery £3400) and additional 1.8kW PV (800) but I did a lot of the mounting myself with salvaged material. I buy 450kWh from the grid in winter but self sufficient mid March to mid October. I heat with a lot of "free" wood.

 

My daughter's system is more typical, 2 strings one SE one SW giving 6kW installed power running into a 5kWhybrid inverter and 10kWh LiPo battery plus a Zappi car charger cost £12k, I think the firm made about £3k profit over cost of equipment, scaffolding and 3 man days installation by a very competent roofer and similar electrician.. Yesterday produced 32kWh and no grid electricity bought since March, including charging the car. If she can use all the predicted 5MWh of electricity it will produce that is worth £1750, else she will receive 15p/kWh for export which will reduce the return somewhat. Current production is exceeding prediction. If she plays the game she can make far more out of the battery by dumping it to the grid between 16:00 and 19:00 then recharging at off peak if necessary for a margin of 32p/kWh. Which can make the battery more sense than PV panels.

 

Where it gets interesting is when you combine a (bigger) battery with an electric heating system and a low off peak tariff. I'll be sticking with wood for my heating.

[openspaceman]

BTW Aberdeenshire will benefit from longer summer daylight but considerable worse outside temperature. Often when people find heat pumps expensive it is because of poor installation. A heat pump benefits from being able to utilise very low (~30C)  flow temperature. Underfloor heating is ideal. Where radiators are used often there is not enough heat exchange surface, so return flow is not cold enough and hence the heat pump has to boost to a higher temperature, reducing COP ( the amount of heat you get out per kWh put in). Ideal for new build but tricky for retrofit.