Arbtalk 2015 General Election Poll

[felixthelogchopper]

This is OK, but what about those who currently carry out these tasks?? Someone will lose the work that the unemployed people start doing.

 

Community projects would be those currently carried out by volunteers or 'the naughty boys gang' . They would be supplementary works rather than existing ones.

[Tom D]

Have a read of this then come back to me Tom.

 

The embarrassing truth about trickle-down | New Economics Foundation

 

Read that before, thing is thats not actually looking at trickle down,its a miss use of statistics. Its simply a relative wealth comparison between the mega rich and the rest of us, and on that scale the rich are getting richer faster than we are. Its like saying that its a statistical fact they banana imports have caused more crime, since as banana imports rose in the years after the war so did the crime rate. So its a statistical fact right? The two things are obviously unrelated yet the stats can be made to show otherwise. Its the same thing here. The rich are getting richer, but not off the backs of the poor. Most of the mega rich make their money in ways that simply involve having money and making it grow in some way. Its not like the dark satanic mills anymore.

Plus what that article doesn't address is the actual trickle down that definitely does occur.

 

Like I said before, really think about the life of a mega rich man, think of how he spends his time and what he does. At every step theres someone "normal" taking a slice of his wealth.. weather its the gamekeeper at the highland estate where he shoots a stag, or the chef at the hotel who cooked it for him. Or the craftsman who made the gun. Or the guy who fixes his jacuzzi. Or the florist who supplies the fresh flowers that he changes every other day. The guy who maintains the engine on his yacht. etc etc. The more you think about it the more things you can think of. We all benefit.

 

Lets say a guy comes over from India like Lakshimi Mittal, he is incredibly rich and pays little tax here as he is Non Dom. But even if he spends 0.1% of his wealth here we are all still better for it than if he never came at all.

[agg221]

Community projects would be those currently carried out by volunteers or 'the naughty boys gang' . They would be supplementary works rather than existing ones.

 

This works well in principle but I am just old enough to remember it not working well in practice when tried in the 1980s recession, but I can't remember why it failed.

 

The irony is though that, if you run the activity on the equivalent of minimum wage, paid by the state, it is directly equivalent to a public sector job...!

 

Alec

[felixthelogchopper]

This works well in principle but I am just old enough to remember it not working well in practice when tried in the 1980s recession, but I can't remember why it failed.

 

The irony is though that, if you run the activity on the equivalent of minimum wage, paid by the state, it is directly equivalent to a public sector job...!

 

Alec

 

.....but without the stigma?

[s.varty]

Read that before, thing is thats not actually looking at trickle down,its a miss use of statistics. Its simply a relative wealth comparison between the mega rich and the rest of us, and on that scale the rich are getting richer faster than we are. Its like saying that its a statistical fact they banana imports have caused more crime, since as banana imports rose in the years after the war so did the crime rate. So its a statistical fact right? The two things are obviously unrelated yet the stats can be made to show otherwise. Its the same thing here. The rich are getting richer, but not off the backs of the poor. Most of the mega rich make their money in ways that simply involve having money and making it grow in some way. Its not like the dark satanic mills anymore.

Plus what that article doesn't address is the actual trickle down that definitely does occur.

 

Like I said before, really think about the life of a mega rich man, think of how he spends his time and what he does. At every step theres someone "normal" taking a slice of his wealth.. weather its the gamekeeper at the highland estate where he shoots a stag, or the chef at the hotel who cooked it for him. Or the craftsman who made the gun. Or the guy who fixes his jacuzzi. Or the florist who supplies the fresh flowers that he changes every other day. The guy who maintains the engine on his yacht. etc etc. The more you think about it the more things you can think of. We all benefit.

 

Lets say a guy comes over from India like Lakshimi Mittal, he is incredibly rich and pays little tax here as he is Non Dom. But even if he spends 0.1% of his wealth here we are all still better for it than if he never came at all.

 

imo you talk a lot of sense tom:thumbup1

[aspenarb]

Wealth does trickle down, Fact. You can't live the millionaire lifestyle without spending loads of cash. For example I have one client who has spent maybe £15k on his trees over the years. There are factories in the Hebrides making tweed, who buys that? not nurses and social workers.

When you are mega rich you have everything done for you, thousands of businesses are dedicated to looking after the needs and wants of the rich, these people take the money off the rich and then they pay tax on it, we all benefit. I have had a handful of mega rich clients and I have made more from them than many many normal domestics put together.

 

These people spend millions on property (paying huge stamp duty in the process) then they spend many more millions doing them up, and guess what, they don't DIY B&Q it!

 

Spot on Tom . Also worth pointing out that the " hoards of offshore cash" are always ploughed back into the economy anyway. No investment banks will sit on this, they put it to work. I know of several developers that use offshore money to fund projects that british banks wont entertain.

 

Bob

[skyhuck]

Tom on the money as usual!!

 

The problem is many people measure their own worth against what others have, rather than concentrating on what they have.

 

People talk about the gap between the rich and poor being greater than ever before, maybe, BUT the difference is in the past the poor starved, today the poor maybe don't have the latest iPhone.

[egnsean]

The rich didn't get richer during the recession, they lost millions, well most of them did.

 

We have an odd concept of "the rich" , So for example the MD of a car parts supplier to the manufacturers will have been hit hard when car sales fell, he's still rich of course compared to you and me.. Whereas a russian oligarch who made all his money elsewhere perhaps wasn't affected all that much.

 

In your view, who are the rich? Joanna Killian, who earns £289k? What is the earning threshold above which you are one of the bad guys?

 

All this stuff about migrants driving down wages is nonsense really, they mostly do jobs that employers struggle to fill, as well as a whole lot of other jobs that young british people don't want to do. We have a generation of kids who want a well paid, clean, non physically taxing 9-5 job, yet they have no skills or work experience. So call centres are the only thing open to them. This is why so many jobs in catering and hospitality are done by eastern europeans, our kids just don't want to get up at 5 to work in a hotel kitchen, let alone pick carrots or leeks all day.

 

Im sorry but your argument is utter bull. Its all about supply and demand

Why do employers struggle to fill these vacancy's? Because they are hard work/antisocial hours for no overtime pay/exploitative/zero hour contracts=No reward for hard graft. what does Brit employee do? not apply for such exploitative jobs, Greedy employers solution= hire in more immigrants Race To The Bottom, End of.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Paul Barton
Language

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

the difference is in the past the poor starved, today the poor maybe don't have the latest iPhone.

 

1000000000000000% spot on correct.

[Paul Barton]

People talk about the gap between the rich and poor being greater than ever before, maybe, BUT the difference is in the past the poor starved, today the poor maybe don't have the latest iPhone.

 

Hmm, I see what you are saying but don't think that people aren't going hungry. Just look at the high demand for Foodbanks giving food parcels to people that don't have enough money to put food on the table.