Climbers disciplined for refusing tree

[scotspine1]

what was dangerous about the trees? the snow on top of the limbs?

 

what was to be done to the trees? removal? pruning?

 

was it the work to be carried out that the climbers thought was too dangerous or the condition of the trees themselves?

[sloth]

Ok, I'll answer your questions as best as I can. I had no role at all in the incident, I was about thirty miles away at the time so havent seen site. Im basing my comments on what Ive been told by the climbers involved. I may have to accompany the least experienced climber into disciplinary hearing tomorrow. The trees were not climbed by the surveyor until the whole arguement had turned heated and he climbed into it to prove it could be done. As I said above my main questions would be why a MEWP couldnt be used or the work deferred until climatic conditions improved. There has been two fairly serious accidents in our company this year and all the employees are concerned about getting hurt and relying on statutory.

 

I don't know how big the company is, but two serious accidents in one year is a worrisome statistic...

[JamesNI]

Is this company an arb association contractor? They may be interested in hearing from you. Climbers choice is final on tree hazards and whether it's safe to climb. Always other options as you said in your op.

[TTP]

Not really read the other comments but at the end of the day your at work to get paid not to get injured and if your sure your not being a girl not climbing the trees then fair play because there is always a safer way to do a job. Tape the site off till you can get the mewp there no harm done! Fudge the employer they know fudge all because there in the office with the heating on! I'm a climber of about 8 years and had 1 job I called it a day on because it was unsafe. I was a self employed climber on the job and the employer didn't have the correct gear and didn't plan the job so I took a step back a said told him the problem. The best thing is be honest, tell the it how it is and offer your harness as see if they do it if they don't do it you played the right card!

[Steve Bullman]

Is this company an arb association contractor? They may be interested in hearing from you. Climbers choice is final on tree hazards and whether it's safe to climb. Always other options as you said in your op.

 

I'd agree with this up to a point. However from my own observations...over the years I have noticed an increase in the amount of trees that are deemed 'unclimbable'. i'm convinced this is due to the HSE governed society we are brought up in, and the insistance that mewps must be used wherever possible. I have personally seen instances where inexperinced climbers have refused to climb trees for totally unfounded reasons(IMO) and am convinced this is down to the training they receive at college or elsewhere. Whilst my own personal climbing techniques are reasonably modern, my approach to tree work is more old school with a 'get it done' attitude. I'm sorry, but I believe that a lot of climbers wuss out of trees way too easily these days.

[david wood]

not a climber or in industry full time but i have always worked on belief if i felt something was truly unsafe to do at work then i could and have stated to manager that i would not do it on safety grounds until alternative was found.

 

been threatened with all sorts but have always remained calm and said no on safety grounds and said if worst comes to worst see you at tribunal, never gotten there yet!

 

far too easy for a boss in heat of moment to try and prove his point and then oooops oh well after something bad happens.

[se7enthdevil]

I'm sure what the company are doing is highly illegal and by giving the employees a disciplinary hearing trying to instill a fear factor but in actual fact digging a bigger hole for themselves . As some of the lads said do a bit of HSE homework , stand up to them and they will fold like a deck of cards when they realise you are no idiots !!

 

too right, look up the rights of an employer and i think the employer is i the wrong. if there have already been accidents at this company then they are very justified in saying "i won't climb it"...

[Rushes]

Plan the meeting - a tip is to write the minutes of the meeting before you go and make sure you ask the questions and get the responses you expect before you leave so they match.

 

Walk into the meeting stating how you intend to conduct yourself through this and your actions afterwards. Be co-operative and positive. "I feel sorry that we have reached such a misunderstanding that . . . . "

 

Take notes and ask the participants to sign before they leave, they already know that this is what you are expecting.

 

You only need note relevant facts not detail.

 

If they aren't singed, type them up, email and ask for ask that errors are corrected.

 

You will of course be asking to see the risk assessments and method statements, equally you will want to see the qualifications of the person making the these assessments and accusations.

 

At all times hold quiet control of the meeting - allow them time to find out the qualifications [although the RA &MS's should be to hand and you should wait for those]

 

Go in there knowing your case from front to back and stay calm and professional throughout. Your job in this is to make the panel realise that they should not trust the accuser and that the case you have is so watertight that the easy way out is an apology.

 

Take no prisoners - if you are convinced your case is right then you and the panel have saved peoples lives, and you should make the panel feel proud to have taken their decision. They will deal with the manger out of shame.

 

Clearly things never go this smoothly, but you need to play this out in your mind and have it clear as you would felling a tree with plan B's along the way.

 

Best of luck and tell us how many lives you saved.

[theflyingscotsman]

As said above, but I'd take a phone in and record the entire meeting..mention its for legal purposes (I'm sure you must advise them of the recording on the recording to make it legal)

 

Hard evidence. No squirm room.

 

It also makes them think that it may go out with the company. Which they won't like.

 

An iPhone would do the job. Gives you more time to focus on what's being said.

 

I would have also call the HSE about this matter 'to clarify' you stand point..

 

Management won't like HSE breathing down their necks...

 

 

Good luck, if it ain't safe it ain't safe..

[RichieR]

Just a quick point before I go out to play. I was lead to believe that when working at height the procedure for assessing the work was :-

1 can the work be carried out from the ground ?

(No)

2 Then can you work from a MEWP

(No)

3 Then climb

 

If this is the case then the company ain't got a leg to stand on