Prices too cheap

[Rowden the cowboy]

Hi all.

 

I'm just putting it out there, but do you think that as a whole, the tree surgery industry is massively undervalued? Put it this way, a brickie can earn £130/day for laying 600 bricks - a skilled job but not necessarily in the same league as a climber or a groundsman doing this job in terms of risk, skill and investment. Where i'm based the ceiling for a climber is £120/day - It may be possible to get £150/day nearer London.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not just a whingeing subby - I run my own business and have done for two years and I appreciate the costs involved.... I spend up to £5k a year on insurances alone, let alone accountancy costs, yard rental, tax, etc etc. The list of costs is endless. So from a lot of you guys it seems that your charging £500-700/ day for a three man team - Is that not too cheap given the risks involved, the investment in plant, the insurances, the years of training and experience? How can that cover three people with a decent daily wage including tax and NI and pay all the costs?

 

The simple truth is it can't. I personally believe that for this industry to advance there needs to be a wholesale rise in prices so that staff can be valued and paid the wage they should be - If a brickie earns around £130/day then a climber is worth £180-200 and a skilled groundsman is worth £150. Cover NI, Tax, holidays and a 3 man team for £700/day looks totally unviable.

 

Stop me if i'm wrong.

[Scott Walker]

Total agree.

 

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

[AndyCM]

On site on Thursday I had a 75 year old customer ask me how much the saws cost (we had a MS241 & MS261 buzzing that day, but they could easily have been bigger saws).

 

Off the cuff I said between £500 & £1,000 for good saws which on reflection is about right, I think. So the replacement cost alone (before bars, chains, oil, fuel & bits) is significant especially for a number of saws and how many years before replacement ?

 

That got me thinking as the only source of funding is the rate charged to the customer.

 

Andy

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

So from a lot of you guys it seems that your charging £500-700/ day for a three man team - Is that not too cheap given the risks involved, the investment in plant, the insurances, the years of training and experience? How can that cover three people with a decent daily wage including tax and NI and pay all the costs?

 

The simple truth is it can't. I personally believe that for this industry to advance there needs to be a wholesale rise in prices so that staff can be valued and paid the wage they should be - If a brickie earns around £130/day then a climber is worth £180-200 and a skilled groundsman is worth £150. Cover NI, Tax, holidays and a 3 man team for £700/day looks totally unviable.

 

Stop me if i'm wrong.

 

Totally agree; however your figure of £5-700 for a 3 man day would be all our Christmas' come at once down here. The cheapest known ARB firm in Plymouth (not us) is £330 for a 3 man day; we used to be £390 for a 2 man ARB day but had to reduce that to £350 to even win the odd job. Bear in mind that this is very favourable in comparison with forestry money where a hand cutter and winch tractor (operated) or tractor forwarder are coming in at £120 and £160 / day respectively. Our pto chipper on valtra goes out at £160 day too; this is in comparison with arb firms that seem to be in the range of £4-700 for the same.

Edited December 16, 2012 by TimberCutterDartmoor

[Le Sanglier]

Of course you feel undervalued, we all want more money. Fact is you get what you're worth. If climbers get 120 a day that's because if they don't do it someone else will.

Tbh for the overheads of a cheap TW, A 3.5 tonner and some basic gear I don't think there is a better (or easier once you know what you're doing) way of making money.

(mind you PL insurance does sting a bit)

[nz paul]

Agree,way undervalued.

[skyhuck]

Too many cutters, not enough wood.

[D A Tree Surgeons]

I Agree

Do we Price what we think we are worth or price to win ?

[Woodworks]

You don't necessarily get what your worth in this world you get what someone is prepared to pay. I am/was a cabinet maker by trade and highly skilled with a lot of money invested in machinery but I am lucky if I can earn £100 per day. If I work as a chippy I get £100-£120 no problem. I am sell firewood through the winter months as it pays better than furniture making even tho it is far less skilled. The other problem you chaps have is lots of people wan't to do tree work so with supply and demand being what they are the prices get forced down through competition.

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

Too many cutters, not enough wood.

 

so true