Welcome back to the EU!

[Tree monkey 1682]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

You may raise an objection about my use of the term ill-informed, but I don't use it in the pejorative sense. It's just a statement of fact, and in some instances, being ill-informed about the minutiae of international trade relations, law and regulatory alignment is probably good for you.

 

I am no expert in any of these matters, nor do I want to be. I elect politicians who represent me, who listen to the advice and guidance of experts and academics, so that the best outcome is reached. 

 

Circumventing this process to ask an open ended question like "should we leave the EU" without any serious suggestion of what the conclusion of that process was insane. And it has harmed the UK and curtailed the opportunities for young people that were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining, but had no say in the matter owing to their age.

 

Tree Monkey 1682. You're new here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Any notion that Germany sought to ill-treat the UK due to the outcome of WW2 is total bollocks. It's an example of lingering, post-imperial exceptionalism where some Brits seem to think that the world still revolves around the UK. It doesn't. Germany and France have sought (along with the UK for most of the intervening time) to maintain European stability in order to maintain European peace. The EU is a mechanism of stability and the UK leaving jeopardised this. The negotiations were reasonable from the EU side, given that the Tory government was coming from the "having my cake and eating it" school of international diplomacy.

Well done, that's what the EU wanted, however so much gumph is governed by Europe, that I didn't want or need why should be part of it? After all wasn't the EU set up because people were so scared by Hitler? Look at it now you have the Americans causing gawd knows how many wars indirectly and directly.. 

Think middle East, Afghanistan, Iraq all caused by America, yet the EU never said whoa, you shouldn't be meddling in that, the EU hasn't said jesus India and packistan, guys both stop being twats - there both nuclear superpowers. 

So really the gumph that it was set up to stop wars or anything similar. 

I need to research the serbs and croates and nato before I comment on that, 

But it's always the English that seem to fix stuff, along with the common wealth. 

And regarding special treatment, I doubt it.. Just want a level playing feild, non of this woke crap... Or stupid eu directives when we're not in friking Europe! Got to laugh.. Kiers a good English name.... Not. 

What I have to ask is if Europe is so good, why do you reside in the UK and moan about it? 

 

[Johnsond]

54 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Funny that my ignorance seemed to be part of, oh I don't know the 52% of the votes.

 

A typical I want to be governed by some clandestine elite body of unelected nobodies that have had no real success or experience in the world except moving one piece of paper between in & out boxes on a desk.

 

You're reply just reinforces everyone's opinion about a certain class of person that's ever so vocal about wants the EU and be it's whipping boy.

The arrogance of the left and the remainers is plain to see Gareth. Democracy is just a mere inconvenience if the results are not what they align with. 
There are those on here constantly saying how “ you just don’t get it “ or are too uninformed for your vote to be worthy if your views are right wing, regardless of the fact often as not those same people are running businesses and standing on their own two feet rather than sucking off the  state tit. 

[Tree monkey 1682]

9 minutes ago, Whoppa Choppa said:

Have you actually looked at the economies in the eurozone at the moment?!

 

You're stark raving bonkers!

That's why they want us to join again, bail them out, because most of the EU is financially buggered like Greece 

[Stubby]

15 minutes ago, Tree monkey 1682 said:

 

What I have to ask is if Europe is so good, why do you reside in the UK and moan about it? 

 

He dosn't . Reside in the UK that is .

[topchippyles]

20 minutes ago, Tree monkey 1682 said:

 

What I have to ask is if Europe is so good, why do you reside in the UK and moan about it? 

 

Big J does not live in the UK keep up to speed old chap.

 

[Tree monkey 1682]

7 minutes ago, topchippyles said:

Big J does not live in the UK keep up to speed old chap.

 

 OK, so why is he crapping on or moaning on a UK forum then? About UK political scene, surely if Europe's so great why are they behaving like they need the UK? and thank you for the correction

[Tree monkey 1682]

4 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Because I am British, and I would like to see the country prosper. Most of my family and friends still reside there.

 

The difficulty, and indeed the conflict between democracy and bureaucracy is that elected officials often (usually) have no experience in the field in which they are appointed to work. Take government ministers as an example. They are given a brief, which they may hold for a period of weeks, months or years, but often they are being asked to be responsible for an entire department with no prior expertise.

 

Consequently, they are reliant on their civil servants (or 'unelected bureaucrats' as the right wing like to refer to them as) to provide the guidance necessary for them to be effective in their role.

 

This structure is indeed how the EU has functioned. Not substantively different to that of Whitehall, albeit on a larger scale.

 

It is not possibly to have all public roles directly elected and directly answerable to the public. It would be chaos and nothing productive would ever occur.

 

Yes, the EU has economic problems. So does the UK. Collectively, we are stronger together and hopefully a degree of reintegration will illustrate this.

Thank you for mildy clarifying some things, 

I still feel that the freedom of movement isn't great at this time, I mean being serious look at the terrorist issues that German has had recently... Surely an open border policy hasn't helped that? 

Things need to change radically in this country  (UK) and it will only happen if someone from outside does it, nothing will happen with Labour conservatives, Green or lib dem... 

Me I'd love the challenge of turning the country around, but the people who voted Labour, the anti vaxers, the people who want to stay in Europe, people on benefits who could work, the people claiming asylum, pride and I'm sure I've missed other people off wouldn't like me 😂. 

I'd also say yes Scotland and Wales by all means you can have your country back but no funding from Westminster.. 

I could go on... I mean thes enough people in our country of working age that don't want to work, so we wouldn't need people from the EU. 

I don't mind people coming here as long as you fit in, pay tax and integrate... 

But I can't stand double standards, hypocrisy, wokeness 

[tree-fancier123]

So back when the steam engine was invented Britain wasn't in the EU and yet it's economy was doing better than most.

If only they'd known how much better things would be if all the nearby countries were to coagulate as one big glob.

All the African countries could become one gorious loving enterprise covering the whole continent

[sime42]

@Tree monkey 1682

 

You'll need to draw up a Venn Diagram for that list of people who wouldn't like you! They won't all fit neatly in one circle, it'd be messy. 

 

There's very much anti-Labour anti-vaxers, very much unwoke work capable Daily Mail reading benefit bums (of the indigenous variety), and very much unpride asylum seekers, etc etc. Messy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22 by sime42

[Squaredy]

59 minutes ago, Big J said:

It would be chaos and nothing productive would ever occur.

Mmmm now that sounds very familiar......!