Thinning oak stand

[devon TWiG]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

 

Yep. Just can't see the point of planting oak myself. 

or almost any hardwood for that matter !!  , maybe for bio diversity etc, but timber production is very unlikely ...

[Spruce Pirate]

3 hours ago, Big J said:

 

It's not 3ft. 2.5m x 2.5m is normal. Or 2.0m x 2.5m. Sometimes it's 3x3m but it tends not to produce very good quality trees.

 

Going to have to disagree there.  Those spacings are what the grant schemes dictate, not what is good for growing timber.  Most of the old literature, I'm lead to believe, favours tight spacings.  Anecdotally, I've seen this in practice and it works, but my experience is not wide enough to be considered scientifically robust.

 

 

 

Locally, we have some hardwoods destroyed by squirrels, however, there has been a purge on greys to favour the reds which are moving back in.  The result is that it is now years since I've seen a grey squirrel, which is a good thing, and timber damage has gone down too.  The reds have, as yet not really moved back in to fill the vacuum, if and when they do it will be at least interesting to see if the damage to trees increases again.

[AHPP]

5 minutes ago, Spruce Pirate said:

 

Going to have to disagree there.  Those spacings are what the grant schemes dictate, not what is good for growing timber.  Most of the old literature, I'm lead to believe, favours tight spacings.  Anecdotally, I've seen this in practice and it works, but my experience is not wide enough to be considered scientifically robust.

 

 

 

Locally, we have some hardwoods destroyed by squirrels, however, there has been a purge on greys to favour the reds which are moving back in.  The result is that it is now years since I've seen a grey squirrel, which is a good thing, and timber damage has gone down too.  The reds have, as yet not really moved back in to fill the vacuum, if and when they do it will be at least interesting to see if the damage to trees increases again.

I always find it funny when shooters etc are giving it the big one about being custodians of the countryside, killing greys to protect trees and let the reds back in. I bet the reds are just as bad for trees. 

[Spruce Pirate]

22 minutes ago, AHPP said:

I always find it funny when shooters etc are giving it the big one about being custodians of the countryside, killing greys to protect trees and let the reds back in. I bet the reds are just as bad for trees. 

 

I don't know if there's much evidence or study on reds and damage to trees.  But my money is with yours, I reckon almost as bad as greys if not as bad.

[Will C]

8 hours ago, AHPP said:

I always find it funny when shooters etc are giving it the big one about being custodians of the countryside, killing greys to protect trees and let the reds back in. I bet the reds are just as bad for trees. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Spruce Pirate said:

 

I don't know if there's much evidence or study on reds and damage to trees.  But my money is with yours, I reckon almost as bad as greys if not as bad.

We only have reds over here. There is virtually no tree damage from them. It happens very occasionally if there desperate for moisture in a drought but I’ve seen 2 or 3 cases in the last 10 years, even then it’s a small inch or 2 square patch not branches striped to the point of wrecking the tree. 

[Stubby]

8 hours ago, AHPP said:

 I bet the reds are just as bad for trees. 

Apparently not . I don't know why but they cause very little damage . 

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

Apparently not . I don't know why but they cause very little damage . 

I have no experience of reds, only ever seen them in the lake district, but the bark stripping by greys is specific to  the frustrations of displaced males which cannot establish a territory, so I doubt reds will do the devastating sort of damage greys do.

 

When I started planting in the early 70s, mostly softwoods,  the spacing had just increased from 5' x 5' to 6' in the rows and 8' between rows, ostensibly to allow tractor access and reduce planting costs but I expect there was a change in grant rules too. Spiral guards existed but not tubes and conifers were fenced rather than individually protected.

[Stere]

Free Growth of Oak silviculture event at Crumblands Plantation — Woodland Heritage

WWW.WOODLANDHERITAGE.ORG

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Free Growth of Oak - a sell-out Woodland Heritage event, which included a field visit to the Forest Research long-term...

 

Anyone being here would be interesting to have more details of there management?

 

13400 tree per hectare  really dense is that corrrect?

 

EDIT

 

 

France do a 240 yr cycle another method is  promoting  a new 100yrs cycle

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjalOrImrX8AhUITsAKHXiGBZ4QFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjournal.societyofirishforesters.ie%2Findex.php%2Fforestry%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F10853%2F9907&usg=AOvVaw1E5Dm0sAwI-SouUDv6deOx

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Stere

[AHPP]

23 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

I have no experience of reds, only ever seen them in the lake district, but the bark stripping by greys is specific to  the frustrations of displaced males which cannot establish a territory, so I doubt reds will do the devastating sort of damage greys do.

 

That doesn’t follow. If the conservation press is to be believed, just about all the reds are facing those frustrations of not being able to establish territory.

[Stere]

Reds ate my hornbeams  several ft off each tree.

 

 

Non ring barked  but a dozen look like this.

 

Suprisingly it seems to have had little effect on the trees so far with regards to growth.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Stere