Wages for employees

[briscoe]

2 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

A profitable business is not the same as a massive business. It does not need to be big at all. 

 

You can be small, and charge good money. Working x amount of days isn't the point I'm making. 

 

Working 1 high value day is much better than someone who essentially takes up 5 days of tree work for crap money. 

 

Anyway, you're right. Much the same as anyone can wake up each morning and dip their balls in boiling water, they too can do a very dangerous and hard job for crap money if they so wish. 

Sole trader on own tree job/hedge at £350pd x 2 days per week VS working for someone else £100pd x 2 days.  business costs are say £100pw so £400 extra money so easy to see why many choose to go on their own. 

[muttley9050]

Two Spruce 6”x1” board orders came in this morning. 5.6m lengths and £10 each. 100 for one order and 30 for another.  So that’s £1300 right there.
The Spruce is £45 a ton. I doubt I’ll need more than 6t. So that’s £300 give it take. Loader is £60 for the day. I’ll rattle them out in one day. So about £940-£950 for the day. 
 
Easy money. 
 
I don’t bother with the mobile milling now. Even at £500 a day it’s not really worth it. 
 
 

They're is a lot of costs you are omitting there Andy.

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, muttley9050 said:

6 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

Two Spruce 6”x1” board orders came in this morning. 5.6m lengths and £10 each. 100 for one order and 30 for another.  So that’s £1300 right there.
The Spruce is £45 a ton. I doubt I’ll need more than 6t. So that’s £300 give it take. Loader is £60 for the day. I’ll rattle them out in one day. So about £940-£950 for the day. 
 
Easy money. 
 
I don’t bother with the mobile milling now. Even at £500 a day it’s not really worth it. 
 
 

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They're is a lot of costs you are omitting there Andy.

True I actually thought about that later but though it was pointless to edit the post. But since you ask, I guess 8-10 liters of fuel and 2-3 bands that will need re-sharpened. So I guess I could add another £50 to the expenses for the day.  I'll maybe get a vented bag filled with the Backs and sell that for an additional £50. The hire of the Branch Logger works out at £7 a bag. So Im back to £930 to£940 for the day. 

 

Cant think of any other expenses really? What am I missing? 

[Richard 1234]

12 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

True I actually thought about that later but though it was pointless to edit the post. But since you ask, I guess 8-10 liters of fuel and 2-3 bands that will need re-sharpened. So I guess I could add another £50 to the expenses for the day.  I'll maybe get a vented bag filled with the Backs and sell that for an additional £50. The hire of the Branch Logger works out at £7 a bag. So Im back to £930 to£940 for the day. 

 

Cant think of any other expenses really? What am I missing? 

The mill itself? No idea what kind of money it was but it wants replacing at some point.

[muttley9050]

Purchase of a mill. Wear and tear.

Dealing with either collection of delivery of timber.

The business rates owed on your property for running that kind of business from it.

Insurance.

 

Probably think of more

[trigger_andy]

3 minutes ago, muttley9050 said:

Purchase of a mill. Wear and tear.

Dealing with either collection of delivery of timber.

The business rates owed on your property for running that kind of business from it.

Insurance.

 

Probably think of more

The Mills paid for itself a few times over now.  I’ve yet to replace anything on the mill that than a set of Belts a year at about £50. 
 

Timber is on-site. Felled on the Estate, I just pick up from my pile and load the Mill with the Avant I pay £60 a day for including fuel.

 

I don’t deliver Timber very often. I’ll not be delivering these boards as I don’t have a way of transporting 5.7m lengths comfortably. I guess I’ll need to be there for collection but I’ll be there anyway. 
 

I’ve got the Mill on the Estate I get the logs from. No Business Rates. I do pay £100 a month for the workshop though. So £3.50 for the days milling. 
 

Yes, I should have added insurance. Let’s say a fiver.

 

I need to drive to the Estate. What’s a 5-6 minute drive in fuel there and back? Say another fiver. 

 

That’s me down to £917-£927 profit. 
 

I am swapping the Briggs out for a Honda GX630. How to factor that into the equation for a days milling I’m not sure 
 

 

 

[muttley9050]

The Mills paid for itself a few times over now.  I’ve yet to replace anything on the mill that than a set of Belts a year at about £50. 
 
Timber is on-site. Felled on the Estate, I just pick up from my pile and load the Mill with the Avant I pay £60 a day for including fuel.
 
I don’t deliver Timber very often. I’ll not be delivering these boards as I don’t have a way of transporting 5.7m lengths comfortably. I guess I’ll need to be there for collection but I’ll be there anyway. 
 
I’ve got the Mill on the Estate I get the logs from. No Business Rates. I do pay £100 a month for the workshop though. So £3.50 for the days milling. 
 
Yes, I should have added insurance. Let’s say a fiver.
 
I need to drive to the Estate. What’s a 5-6 minute drive in fuel there and back? Say another fiver. 
 
That’s me down to £917-£927 profit. 
 
I am swapping the Briggs out for a Honda GX630. How to factor that into the equation for a days milling I’m not sure 
 

 
 

Going to be pedantic now but that is how expenses work.
The mill hasn't paid for itself. Will anyways be an expense.
You can't just write off the first 2 or 3 weeks work to pay for it. One day it will need replacing and be an expense again. So the cost is the purchase cost, plus any repairs etc, for the expected life divided by amount of days expected use.
Travel to work needs to factor in vehicle costs and depriciation etc.
The workshop only costs 3.50 per days milling of you mill in it every day of the month.
Bet it will take at least an hour to deal with collection of that quantity of timber. Wether you are there or not its an hours work.
Two orders, two customers to collect and load etc.
Chainsaws for bucking etc.
All accountable over a year of business.
Maybe excluded from the odd days dealing but still there

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, Clutchy said:

I don't know if this was aimed at my response at all but if you do this work purely for the enjoyment like a lot of members here do, why start a business? Why not just contract climb or work for someone.

 

That would be better than dragging the industry rates down punishing us 'greedy guys' right? Plus way less stress 

 

I think there must be a few people in that position (Not saying you are as I likely misunderstood your post). 

 

Also the cost in beer difference between London and the North is because of the property it is served in and thus the rent/mortgage that is due and factored into each pint. 

It wasen,t aimed at any body really, but sorry if you think it was ! 

 

You say or think i do it for purely for enjoyment ! i did not say that, what i said was i do get enjoyment and satisfaction from my work, now i have always understood that if you are happy with in your work it leads to a better job and with a happier crew you will get far more out of than a crew that is not happy, 

 

i have ran a business since the mid 80s and the way i see it is, if i dont know what i am doing by now its time to give up, so why would i want to go and climb for someone else when i am in my now late 50s ? or go and work for some one else when i have my own work and plenty of it ?,

 

Where do you get it from that i am dragging the industry rates down ? i have not said anything about any rates nor would i ever print any rates on a public forum and that is something i lernt many many years ago,  that information is for me and my accountant only, what other people charge is there business as like what i charge and make is mine,

 

I am in a very good position in life at present and if i get out of bed in the morning and i have not planed any work in, i may take myself of fishing, shooting or dog training for the day i dont really need to go to work every day now a days, 

 

Now with your answer to the price of beer in London, you answered it as i see it, rent mortgage costs they all have to be factored in, but after all the bar you get served in in London is the same as a bar in say York, its 4 walls with a roof on it, electric and gas costs are the same nation wide !! its just the Greedy barstards at the top of the chain like the muti million airs who have bought the properties councils and all the other organisations that fleece the every day working man, 

I think you have got the wrong picture of me !! one thing i do enjoy doing is passing my knowledge and experience down to the younger generations and that i do for a very fair swap for a bit of free labour back,,

[trigger_andy]

3 minutes ago, muttley9050 said:

Going to be pedantic now but that is how expenses work.
The mill hasn't paid for itself. Will anyways be an expense.
You can't just write off the first 2 or 3 weeks work to pay for it. One day it will need replacing and be an expense again. So the cost is the purchase cost, plus any repairs etc, for the expected life divided by amount of days expected use.
Travel to work needs to factor in vehicle costs and depriciation etc.
The workshop only costs 3.50 per days milling of you mill in it every day of the month.
Bet it will take at least an hour to deal with collection of that quantity of timber. Wether you are there or not its an hours work.
Two orders, two customers to collect and load etc.
Chainsaws for bucking etc.
All accountable over a year of business.
Maybe excluded from the odd days dealing but still there

All good valid points.

 

Not sure how to put a figure on the Mills daily depreciation? 
 

How much is a 5-6 minute drive going to cost in wear and tear? I’m sure that’s all covered in the fiver for fuel to be honest. 
 

The Workshop is not directly a Milling Expense. I had it before the Mill and will keep it regardless if milling or not. So say 1/3 of the £100 a month dedicated to the Mill. Just over a quid a day, but since you’ve rightly pointed out that Im not milling there every day I’ll say £3.50 still stands.

 

Im not loading the Timber. I just point to where it is and let them crack on. I’ll have a blether like I always do but certainly not more than 15 minutes per customer. But yes it’s a time cost. 
 

Fair enough regarding the Chainsaw. That is a legitimate expense. Add a fiver for that. 
 

Im down to £910 profit. I guess I’ll just have to do an extra half hour and knock out another 10 boards to get me back to a nice £1000 profit. 

[dan blocker]

24 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

True I actually thought about that later but though it was pointless to edit the post. But since you ask, I guess 8-10 liters of fuel and 2-3 bands that will need re-sharpened. So I guess I could add another £50 to the expenses for the day.  I'll maybe get a vented bag filled with the Backs and sell that for an additional £50. The hire of the Branch Logger works out at £7 a bag. So Im back to £930 to£940 for the day. 

 

Cant think of any other expenses really? What am I missing? 

Andy, I think your missing out the important comparisons?  Most of the Arbs on here started at the bottom at various stages of their working life. They would of worked for next to nothing, and had living costs and by the time the weekend was out they were probably skint. As their skill level increased along with qualifications( don’t know what training you’ve had for your mill and processor but I can guess) all these qualifications cost( some would of had some help from the government and employers) some would of earn’t sweet Fanny Adams when they were training. As their career went on the money went up and also their costs - cars, women, rent, mortgages etc, this meant very few people could save much money to buy kit and set themselves up to make the leap and go on their own. 
When they finally made the leap of faith they may or may not of had a truck and possibly a trailer. As for a chipper - don’t require one of those? I’ll just slash it down in the back of a trailer with the chainsaw so I can get more on. Finally can’t put it off any longer a chipper is required to get the lot on and cut down the journeys! How the hell will I afford one of those? They’re more than my truck, I’m barely making a living, I’ll have to have one on finance. Then someone says the jobs yours “can you show us your Public Liability Ins and employers insurance certs” before you start and your kits failed loler or gone out of date - more expense. Want some new tyres on the truck, the old Stihl 260 won’t star cos it’s knackered. The whole mary  go round with a big millstone around the neck as started🤔 do you see where I’m going Andy? 
You Andy have a regular well paid job in a lucrative industry, being paid well for not many days of your time. You’ve probably bought your mill, processors and saws for cash, ie, no finance. As you’ve previously said with your mantels” pay the price, they can take it or leave it, I’m not too bothered” No , because it’s not your livelihood is it, you’ve started out in your second career( almost a hobby?) without having to make a living from it. There’s no risk to doing what your doing. You can buy in the timber to suit the orders you’ve got.
Blokes on here have worked long hours in all weathers to run their business, laid out an awful lot of money in some case and taken big risks, they’ve speculated, put their neck on the line and it could all come to a grinding halt tomorrow when the work slows down or stops or they have an injury or illness, you Andy can just stick your kit on Arb trader and find another hobby that could turn out lucrative🤔.

Sorry it’s long winded if I could of said it in two words I would of!