Russia Invades ukraine

[topchippyles]

4 hours ago, Big J said:

 

Why exactly is that so wrong? Why is it unreasonable for Ukraine to insist that it's neighbour respects it's internationally recognised borders? Russia is unquestionably the aggressor.

 

But, in the spirit of trying to end the war, I would suggest to Ukraine that it gives up Luhansk, Donbas and Crimea in exchange for the return of all other occupied land, EU and Nato membership and a permanent demilitarised zone, manned with international peacekeepers. 

Putin has his exit ramp, insofar as he can say that he secured those lands for Russia, and Ukraine recovers some of it's sovereign territory and has future security assurances. Though given how the Budapest memorandum wasn't honoured, how much that is worth is debatable. 

 

Either way, a lasting peace isn't going to be acheived by simply giving Russia everything it demands. That would only embolden them to repeat the actions in the future.

 

 

This would be you in the great escape jonathon 😁

[Stubby]

It seems the EU have offered Ukraine a deal on " rare Earths " to counter Trumptons . 

[Big J]

2 hours ago, topchippyles said:

This would be you in the great escape jonathon 😁

 

Forgive me for having not seen the film, so the reference is lost on me

[daveatdave]

it reminds me of what Neville chamberlain was saying when he came back from meeting Hitler in 1939 

[GarethM]

37 minutes ago, daveatdave said:

it reminds me of what Neville chamberlain was saying when he came back from meeting Hitler in 1939 

C'mon, he's not even seen the great escape.

There are probably uncontacted tribes in the Amazon that have seen the great escape!.

[Big J]

9 hours ago, GarethM said:

C'mon, he's not even seen the great escape.

There are probably uncontacted tribes in the Amazon that have seen the great escape!.

 

I'm just not that old 😁

 

You asked me to provide a suggestion that you regarded as realistic. Of course, I fully believe that Ukraine should have it's borders restored to pre-2014, but with the f**kwit Russian asset in the Whitehouse, is that is remotely likely? 

 

Another question to ask is, what would Ukraine gain by holding on for complete reunification? Russia has effectively ethnically cleansed the occupied areas of Ukrainians, so how Ukrainian are they now? Peace for 90% of Ukraine is better than 80% of Ukraine at war to take back the 20% that doesn't contain any Ukrainians anymore.

Again, to stress, Ukraine should be restored to 100%. But in this age of awful people seemingly acting with total impunity, I'm not optimistic.

[GarethM]

You are old enough to have practically watched the full film by osmosis and every other post WW2 epic that's almost baked into the DNA of the british!.

 

A full restoration isn't a peace negotiation, give and take are a required.

 

A similar scheme didn't work well post WW1 with the Germans, plus the coal and other stuff they had to pay the allies in reparations effectively forced the second disagreement into being.

[peds]

"Again, to stress, Ukraine should be restored to 100%. But in this age of awful people seemingly acting with total impunity, I'm not optimistic."

 

Hear, hear.

Edited 5 hours ago by peds

[Mark Bolam]

46 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I'm just not that old 😁

 

You asked me to provide a suggestion that you regarded as realistic. Of course, I fully believe that Ukraine should have it's borders restored to pre-2014, but with the f**kwit Russian asset in the Whitehouse, is that is remotely likely? 

 

Another question to ask is, what would Ukraine gain by holding on for complete reunification? Russia has effectively ethnically cleansed the occupied areas of Ukrainians, so how Ukrainian are they now? Peace for 90% of Ukraine is better than 80% of Ukraine at war to take back the 20% that doesn't contain any Ukrainians anymore.

Again, to stress, Ukraine should be restored to 100%. But in this age of awful people seemingly acting with total impunity, I'm not optimistic.

 

That’s a good, sensible post J.

 

I’m quite jealous of you never having seen The Great Escape.

You’re in for a treat!

[GarethM]

13 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

 

That’s a good, sensible post J.

 

I’m quite jealous of you never having seen The Great Escape.

You’re in for a treat!

Don't spoil the ending!