Future Firewood Demand Optimism?

[sandspider]

Thanks. That doesn't sound too bad, considering. And yes, with prices only going up at the moment payback isn't likely to take too long for those who have the money to hand.

[openspaceman]

49 minutes ago, sandspider said:

with prices only going up at the moment payback isn't likely to take too long for those who have the money to hand.

This is the crux, it is unlikely to be worth doing on borrowed money.

[neiln]

10 hours ago, openspaceman said:

...and again in Jan 23 it seems. 44p/kWh predicted for electricity and 14p for gas. It will have a minimal effect on me as my electricity bill will still be around £200+ standing charges and gas is only used for hot water but at these prices solar PV  and a battery is a no brainer if you have an unshaded southish facing roof.

And don't intend to move for the lifetime of the panels (per let's say 10+ years). As the upfront are still massive.  

[neiln]

Installing a large, or could of, wood stove, voting a chainsaw, PPE, axe, hatchet and maul and getting busy making friends with local tree surgeons will pay back much more quickly.  This winter alone could well cover what I spent, although that was 6-7 years ago and prices are up on stoves, saws and axes too, but yep, I'm glad I've 2-3 years worth of wood in the neck garden.  Even my wife is complaining less that ' all you do is split wood' 🤣

[Billhook]

My solar electric panels cost over 10 k ten years ago and even on the 42p tariff I still do not think it has paid for itself.  However at the same time I went on a course in Wales with Navitron to learn how to fit solar tubes.  I do not know what make they are but they have been fantastic at supplying hot water in the Summer months when the wood burner is given a rest.  I would recommend them over the electric panels for saving money over time.

Here are some similar to mine

Efficient Solar Thermal Collectors (10 - 30 Tubes)

SOLARSUPPLIESUK.CO.UK

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Our Solar Thermal Collectors are high efficiency double wall evacuated tubes measuring 1800x58. 5 Year warranty

 

[openspaceman]

48 minutes ago, neiln said:

And don't intend to move for the lifetime of the panels (per let's say 10+ years). As the upfront are still massive.  

Yes I don't know what the effect on selling a house equipped with solar PV and battery will have on the price.

 

In my case I have been here 43 years and unlikely to move except into a care home and that won't be for long.

37 minutes ago, neiln said:

Installing a large, or could of, wood stove, voting a chainsaw, PPE, axe, hatchet and maul and getting busy making friends with local tree surgeons will pay back much more quickly.  This winter alone could well cover what I spent, although that was 6-7 years ago and prices are up on stoves, saws and axes too, but yep, I'm glad I've 2-3 years worth of wood in the neck garden.  Even my wife is complaining less that ' all you do is split wood' 🤣

 Of course the two are not mutually exclusive and I have both solar panels and I burn wood, as my house is small I only average about 6-7kWh of electricity per day and the shortfall during the winter is only 450kWh. I only wish I could store the excess that I  have in summer to use in winter. In fact doubling my array and increasing battery capacity somewhat would make me self sufficient but  I think I am on the right cost-performance part of the curve as it is.

 

Although my wood is all free it does require a fair amount of labour and if I valued that at £10/hour...

 

I don't want to appear too evangelistic about either just putting my case.

 

@Billhook feels he disagrees about the solar PV but does burn wood, I have easily paid back my investment in solar PV in ten years (except starting now there are no subsidies so it has to stand up by itself)  but didn't have roof space for solar thermal and felt the PV at around 15% conversion of incident sunlight to electricity offered far more utility as I only needed about 60 quids worth of hot water a year and the sun would only provide in the summer months.

[neiln]

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

Yes I don't know what the effect on selling a house equipped with solar PV and battery will have on the price.

 

In my case I have been here 43 years and unlikely to move except into a care home and that won't be for long.

 Of course the two are not mutually exclusive and I have both solar panels and I burn wood, as my house is small I only average about 6-7kWh of electricity per day and the shortfall during the winter is only 450kWh. I only wish I could store the excess that I  have in summer to use in winter. In fact doubling my array and increasing battery capacity somewhat would make me self sufficient but  I think I am on the right cost-performance part of the curve as it is.

 

Although my wood is all free it does require a fair amount of labour and if I valued that at £10/hour...

 

I don't want to appear too evangelistic about either just putting my case.

 

@Billhook feels he disagrees about the solar PV but does burn wood, I have easily paid back my investment in solar PV in ten years (except starting now there are no subsidies so it has to stand up by itself)  but didn't have roof space for solar thermal and felt the PV at around 15% conversion of incident sunlight to electricity offered far more utility as I only needed about 60 quids worth of hot water a year and the sun would only provide in the summer months.

Oops, typing from my phone was terrible, but I think you got the gist.

 

Yes I agree solar is a good thing, buta shame it's cost means it's only available to those with a big whack of cash to hand. 

 

True they could both be done, if you have even more money.  I can't deny that wood is only free with considerable on going effort.  With small stoves as I have I work on 5 hours per cube to scrounge, cut, split and stack and tidy ignores the considerable effort to collect from wood pile, set and feed the fire, and clean the ashes. It's real work!  I enjoy the saw and axe, the time in the garden and the exercise.  When I no longer do, I doubt I'll do 12+15 cube Year any longer!

 

Now....I need a wood fired house sized CHP system, to generate lecy, hot water and space heating, and a way to distil premium unleaded from wood.... Maybe producing saleable charcoal as a by product.... Any ideas? 😂

[openspaceman]

1 minute ago, neiln said:

need a wood fired house sized CHP system, to generate lecy, hot water and space heating, and a way to distil premium unleaded from wood.... Maybe producing saleable charcoal as a by product.... Any ideas? 😂

Plenty but none quite as optimistic as that.

 

[daveatdave]

i looked into the roof sola panels about 20 years ago and crunched the numbers it did not work out in my favor because after about 5 years they started to loose there capacity to produce there full kilowatts and by 20 years they needed replacing and they would not have paid for the cost of them 

also looked at the rent a roof scheme but that was a no go as i had a mortgage and lenders were very against it due to re selling the property in the future would cause problems with the roof rented out      

[openspaceman]

17 minutes ago, daveatdave said:

i looked into the roof sola panels about 20 years ago and crunched the numbers it did not work out in my favor because after about 5 years they started to loose there capacity

Well that's a myth and mine at 10 years are producing about the same, 3MWh per annum and that's with a WSW aspect which is far from ideal, mind I never considered them 20 years ago and sure as hell didn't have the money to invest then as I was spending it all on tractors.