Future Firewood Demand Optimism?

[Billhook]

7 hours ago, daveatdave said:

what if (as i know nothing ) ground and air heat pumps has taken up in the future will it take heat out of the planet and bring on a ice age will it affect the soil insects  same as taking heat out of ponds/lakes instead of 2inch of ice will it be 6 inch the bottom will be colder will it have a effect on the fish and other life in them ?

Good bit of lateral thinking Dave.  Perhaps it will counter global warming?  The soil has a whole lot more life in it than just a few insects, it is a whole ecosystem when in good condition.

[difflock]

39 minutes ago, Billhook said:

Good bit of lateral thinking Dave.  Perhaps it will counter global warming?  The soil has a whole lot more life in it than just a few insects, it is a whole ecosystem when in good condition.

Bloody obvious thinking to my simply mind.

no free lunches.

Simply robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Which is why I did not install a ground source heat source beneath our alreadly marginally productive cold dour Northern soil.

[Billhook]

I would have thought that a very deep borehole would be a less instrusive way of retrieving the heat from below

 

 

[Billhook]

Part 2

 

 

[Billhook]

 

[Stere]

Looks like some not very eco "transfer fluids" used on some systems ok as long as doesn't spring a leak?

 

https://www.gshp.org.uk/pdf/EA_GSHC_Good_Practice_Guide.pdf

 

 

[arboriculturist]

6 hours ago, Big J said:

 

I take your point, but (objectively) as a form of heating, £130/cube is much to expensive. We get through a cube a week if it's properly cold. 

 

It's the massive inefficiency in the whole process from start to finish in the UK that means that we have to charge so much more. I'm in Sweden this week and a cube of perfect, dry birch logs is £50 delivered. That's standard. But then everything is harvester cut here, there is a flawless road network and production is quick and easy.

 

But then think of the work we have to do to produce a cube in the UK. At least with us, the job we're on presently, much of the timber is winched, it's then processed by hand (with assistance from a 14 tonner with a grab). There is a primary extraction by little forwarder to trackside and then a secondary extraction by tractor/trailer. 

 

Then the lorries that come to site only have one way in and one way out due to half a dozen width restricted roads and weak bridges. So conceivably there could be a customer a mile from site that would have to haul the timber 10 miles to avoid those.

 

Then the cost of production is sky high too. Yard space is rare and at a premium now due to so many barns being converted for housing under the class Q planning exemption. What you can find is often wholly inadequate, muddy, doesn't have 3 phase, doesn't have lorry access etc. And all the planning issues about change of use and NIMBY neighbours who will happily buy your logs whilst dobbing you into planning because their utopian vision of rural life doesn't actually include anyone working rurally.

 

Then there is staffing. It's so hard to find reasonable, reliable guys to process logs at a fair price. 

 

And then there is delivery - trying to shoehorn your delivery vehicle down daft little lanes and driveways to drop off only 1 or 2 cube at a time because no one will order in advance. 

 

My point is this. £130 is way too much for a cubic metre of firewood, objectively. But within the nuthouse that is the UK it becomes subjectively justifiable. The cost of doing business here is extremely high. 

Ha Ha - you have just eloquently set out what the larger scale producers know. 

 

Yes totally agree, objectively way too high for home heating, but fortunately firewood is an add on for a lot of customers.

 

The overheads have risen sharply for us over last 3 years and if you actually had to physically touch the logs during the processing process then firewood production is a non starter.

 

No turning back here though as far too much already invested.

[Baldbloke]

My second try at replying as lost first in cycberspace. Twenty years ago I did a lot of work in UniS grounds and woodlands and wasn't aware of that. They now have a woodburner at the sports complex. I guess the sizeable lake is also heating a sizeable building. The thing about a natural pond is that the  coupling with groundwater exchanges more heat and as @Billhook says a running river is picking up heat as it travels. Also water is good at absorbing infra red radiation from the sun.
 
I wouldn't worry about solar thermal over heating in this country and even if it did there are ways to deal with it, freezing would be a bigger worry.
 
PS I experimented with flat plate collectors but with a small South west facing roof  opted for solar PV for the available space.

Your point about river water gaining heat throughout the day is very valid.

I was a fishing ghillie for about 20 years and took the water temperature every day of the season, and sometimes two or three times a day.
Being an old fashioned fu**** and Eurosceptic, I used Imperial measures rather than Celsius. I managed about 8 miles of river in the upper reaches. The daily water temp during a summer’s day could vary as much as 12 degrees F after a cool night followed by a roaster of a day.
Night fishing for Seatrout could be severely impacted by the water being too warm, or when air temp was so much cooler than water temp and resulted in a mist over the water. I’ve also heard that hot water is supposedly less able to retain oxygen levels.

[openspaceman]

18 hours ago, daveatdave said:

what if (as i know nothing ) ground and air heat pumps has taken up in the future will it take heat out of the planet and bring on a ice age will it affect the soil insects  same as taking heat out of ponds/lakes instead of 2inch of ice will it be 6 inch the bottom will be colder will it have a effect on the fish and other life in them ?

I'm sure the little difference it will make as earth orbits around increasing entropy as it dissipates the energy it captured from the sun is in the order of gnats pissing.

 

The bottom of the pond will not grow colder than 4C  until the ice thickens so deep that there is no liquid water left.

[Baldbloke]

Okay  sorry if I misinterpreted. So we agree  good insulation  works both ways and a house with high thermal mass will have less temperature fluctuations with exterior insulation.
 
I still haven't attempted wall insulation  for my solid walls because it would destroy the look of the two tone bricks.

I took advantage of grant insulation a number of years ago and the chap who came around to scrutinise what was ideally needed wanted to pull out all of our internal plaster walls and ornate coving to properly insulate our rather large home. Seemed like total vandalism to me, although the way things are going it might be a necessity shortly. I just took advantage of the doubling up of loft insulation.