Larch price

[trigger_andy]

 
My comments related simply to timber quality. The growth rates of timber down here are bonkers, and unparalleled within the UK. It just doesn't translate to quality unfortunately. 

So you’re excluding the highlands from your U.K. wide report? 🤣

[Big J]

6 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

So you’re excluding the highlands from your U.K. wide report? 🤣

 

 

 

It's still relatively poor quality in the Highlands - just good compared to the rest of the UK (for conifer, in the main).

 

The wind is the biggest issue, I feel. We just have so so much more here than continental Europe, Scandinavia and I presume North America. Wood under constant wind stress has to compensate in ways that don't make for a good saw log.

[trigger_andy]

 
It's still relatively poor quality in the Highlands - just good compared to the rest of the UK (for conifer, in the main).
 
The wind is the biggest issue, I feel. We just have so so much more here than continental Europe, Scandinavia and I presume North America. Wood under constant wind stress has to compensate in ways that don't make for a good saw log.

I’ve never really considered Scotland to be windy? On the coast perhaps.

In a managed forest I’d have thought only the trees on the edges would be affected badly by the wind. Would the trees further in not be ok?

[Big J]

20 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

I’ve never really considered Scotland to be windy? On the coast perhaps.

In a managed forest I’d have thought only the trees on the edges would be affected badly by the wind. Would the trees further in not be ok?

 

 

Very windy when compared to more continental locations, though obviously there is local variation. Even in the centre of blocks, you get much more wind stress here than Scandinavia. 

 

The softwood blocks I've seen in Finland, Sweden and Germany look like lightly garnished snooker cues. 

 

Edit: I should add that we get much better growth rates on the whole, due to the lack of a winter, but if quality is the goal then maximum growth isn't ideal.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Big J

[Mike Hill]

22 hours ago, Big J said:

And WRC grown down here in the West Country can't hold a candle to the stuff I've felled and milled from the Highlands or Morayshire. 

 

It's the lack of a dormant season (mild winters) combined with continuous wind stress (causing compression and tension wood growth, as well as much larger basal diameters) combined with the lack of quality sunlight (causing more substantial branch growth) that gives us our often dodgy quality timber in the UK. 

That's weird.

 

The softwood in the Pacific North West is world renowned. Despite the mild winters,hot summers and windy coastal climate?

 

 

[tree_beard]

5 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

That's weird.

 

The softwood in the Pacific North West is world renowned. Despite the mild winters,hot summers and windy coastal climate?

 

 

Native species grown in their native range from local seedstock in the PNW. Compared to stock selected for high growth and survival rate, planted in marginal ground and chronically mismanaged for generations in the UK. Its politics as much as weather

[Big J]

10 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

That's weird.

 

The softwood in the Pacific North West is world renowned. Despite the mild winters,hot summers and windy coastal climate?

 

 

 

I believe that the best conifer stands are at higher altitude though? Also, the quality of their summers are better. 

 

It'd be interesting to see studies comparing growth rates and timber quality in species such as sitka in their natural ranges versus the UK.

 

Spruce is a wonderful timber and can be of exquisite quality. Soundwood from the Dolomites for violins springs to mind. Our forestry industry in the UK is set up for maximum production with timber quality as a distantly secondary concern. I'm not complaining about it - far from it (I plant a lot of eucalyptus nitens). I'm just pointing out the differences.

[Mike Hill]

No

 

The highest quality timber can come 30m from the sea.

 

What do you mean about the quality of their summer being better?

[Big J]

18 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

No

 

The highest quality timber can come 30m from the sea.

 

What do you mean about the quality of their summer being better?

 

More consistent sunlight. The excessive cloud cover here seems to result in more branching as trees strive for light. A brief comparison on this website:

 

Sunshine & Daylight Hours in Stockholm, Sweden Sunlight, Cloud & Day length

WWW.STOCKHOLM.CLIMATEMPS.COM

 

Indicates that over summer, Stockholm gets 40-50% more sunshine than Plymouth. 

 

I'm entirely open to your hypothesises Mike, but empirically, tree quality is hard to attain in the UK. You can do everything right (good seed stock, suitable ground, correct thinning regime) and still end up with a stand of crap. In Finland, birch grows absolutely perfectly as a weed.  

[arcwoodlands]

Lot of what you are saying is wrong or much more nuanced. FC wind maps show Scotland generally more windy than southern UK. Just because you had a nice stand in Moray doesn't mean West Country worse. Read the what the wood scientist says about speed of growth in relation to strength, which I assume you are using as the measure of "quality"? Yes wind creates tension and yes the continent is generally less windy but its a bit more complex