Grey squirrel management

[drinksloe]

12 hours ago, Big J said:

The problem:

 

 

The answer:

 

 

There is quite a few scientific studies which do claim to prove that.where PM are present there is more red squirrels.

The SWT I think are going to go down and push this route more I think in the future.

Grey's spend a far longer time on the ground ( up to 70%) and with them being larger can't escape into the lighter branches the way reds can.

So there is some logic behind it at face value

 

But in my opinion the studies are flawed, and there is not more reds because of the PM but more as the PM is a goos indicator species for good red habitat.

Which is not surprising as they both evolved together, so good PM habitat is also good red habitat

 

For the studies to be truly proved by rights they should be removing the PM and see if the reds either increase or decrease.

By rights if the studies are correct the reds should decline in number when PM are removed, but I'd be very surprised if that actually happened.

 

 

A PM is a fearsome predator, they're is a very good chance the Capercaillie will likely go extinct again pretty much just due to there increasing numbers, they also won't be helping the Scottish wildcat either if there even is any left.

 

Yes they will hammer the Grey's, but by the time they're is enough numbers to make a dent in Grey's, wot happens then??

As Grey's decline they will just switch the prey drive to other species, no nests will be safe, same with chickens.

And at a time when rabbit numbers are very dry low across almost the whole UK.

Coupled with the rise in corvid numbers ( magpies, crows etc).

 

U ask any wild bird keeper or conservationist from NZ ( there spending massive fortune trying to eradicate the introduce stabs which has decimate there wildlife including dropping poison from helicopters over vat areas) about the massive damage stoats cause, so imagine giving 1 steroids and teaching it to climb trees.

Ur song birds would be even more screwed than they are already.

 

Really not a good idea to encourage them might solve or help to solve grey squirrel problem but will cause a lot more future problems.

The main problem is modern people esp urban rally don't like killing anything.

Edited April 19, 2021 by drinksloe

[Baldbloke]

The problem:
 

 
The answer:
 

We’re infested with the f****** now. We’ve lost about 30 hens and the wildlife has suffered greatly. PineMartins aren’t too fussy about killing anything they can. Especially birds and the contents of their nests. Rabbits, leverets are no bother to theses creatures and they’re clever enough to prise or chew their way through doors and pen wood to access chickens. I work out of hours and regularly see them hopping along the roadside and even saw one in a local cottage hospital car park. I’d have the protection removed from the bastards and a bounty put on them[emoji1304]

[agg221]

12 hours ago, rookery said:

What is the best air gun and sights to buy for despatching rabbits and grey squirrels

Assuming you want non-FAC, make sure it is as close to the 12fps limit as possible. Try a few pellets from different brands at a fixed target and see which group best - different guns like different pellets. Once you have found something it likes, get it checked again to confirm that you are still within the 12fps limit as when you are running close to the limit, some pellets may just take you over.

 

Accuracy comes far more from you than from the gun, but it's still worth having something half decent with parts availability, making sure that any internal roughness is smoothed out and it is properly lubricated in the right places. Worth having a scope but bear in mind you are only shooting out to about 40yds so it doesn't need to be extremely high magnification. There is then the inevitable .177 vs. .22 debate. At this power range, both have one major advantage and one major drawback so you take your pick - the .22 has more stopping power so should be a cleaner, more effective kill in a non-perfect hit zone but the .177 has a flatter trajectory so the shot will be more accurate when the range is not calibrated (I find vermin doesn't tend to sit still while you get out the tape measure).

 

Spring, gas-ram and PCP are all personal choices. An older, good quality secondhand springer or a modern PCP would probably be the most cost-effective. You tend to get used to the trigger but you don't want it too heavy. If you are walking about using it then gas and a safety catch would be my choice to take that opportunity, but if you are waiting for things to come to you then it makes less difference. It is worth trying a few to see what feels right - the length can be adapted using butt pads but there are some surprising differences in overall weight, which when it gets too heavy can be difficult to aim from an unsupported standing stance.

 

Alec

[Baldbloke]

We’re infested with the f****** now. We’ve lost about 30 hens and the wildlife has suffered greatly. PineMartins aren’t too fussy about killing anything they can. Especially birds and the contents of their nests. Rabbits, leverets are no bother to theses creatures and they’re clever enough to prise or chew their way through doors and pen wood to access chickens. I work out of hours and regularly see them hopping along the roadside and even saw one in a local cottage hospital car park. I’d have the protection removed from the bastards and a bounty put on them[emoji1304]

When I was at school at Rannoch 45 odd years ago, we’d occasionally see a Pine Martin that was never much bigger than a big mink. The ones we see on our trail camera around our garden are now twice that size. My wife and I once saw one local to us leaving someone’s country garden and crossing a road in front of us in the daytime (where I suspect they’d been feeding the f*****) that reminded me of the size of mongoose I’d seen in the south of Spain. Such a creature would have no problem in dealing with something the size of a springer spaniel were it stupid enough to corner it. These things are a f****** menace and make Grey Squirrels look like something from a fairytale.

[Patrick goulding]

18 hours ago, sime42 said:

Yep. But aren't there some downsides to reintroducing Pine Martins all over the place? I heard something about them once but forget the details again. Do they attack birds nests as well or something?

They do as much damage as grey squirrels. Apart from they don’t damage the trees. But they do damage other wildlife.

[Patrick goulding]

18 hours ago, daveatdave said:

good job that non of the anti hunting lot come on here there would be hundreds of posts condemning everyone   

Well said mate. If we could help everyone understand why things have to be managed. a lot of people probably don’t even no what a squirrel is or what it looks like never mind what damage they do. Ok 👍 

[Silverhooker]

On 19/04/2021 at 10:59, drinksloe said:

 

There is quite a few scientific studies which do claim to prove that.where PM are present there is more red squirrels.

The SWT I think are going to go down and push this route more I think in the future.

Grey's spend a far longer time on the ground ( up to 70%) and with them being larger can't escape into the lighter branches the way reds can.

So there is some logic behind it at face value

 

But in my opinion the studies are flawed, and there is not more reds because of the PM but more as the PM is a goos indicator species for good red habitat.

Which is not surprising as they both evolved together, so good PM habitat is also good red habitat

 

For the studies to be truly proved by rights they should be removing the PM and see if the reds either increase or decrease.

By rights if the studies are correct the reds should decline in number when PM are removed, but I'd be very surprised if that actually happened.

 

 

A PM is a fearsome predator, they're is a very good chance the Capercaillie will likely go extinct again pretty much just due to there increasing numbers, they also won't be helping the Scottish wildcat either if there even is any left.

 

Yes they will hammer the Grey's, but by the time they're is enough numbers to make a dent in Grey's, wot happens then??

As Grey's decline they will just switch the prey drive to other species, no nests will be safe, same with chickens.

And at a time when rabbit numbers are very dry low across almost the whole UK.

Coupled with the rise in corvid numbers ( magpies, crows etc).

 

U ask any wild bird keeper or conservationist from NZ ( there spending massive fortune trying to eradicate the introduce stabs which has decimate there wildlife including dropping poison from helicopters over vat areas) about the massive damage stoats cause, so imagine giving 1 steroids and teaching it to climb trees.

Ur song birds would be even more screwed than they are already.

 

Really not a good idea to encourage them might solve or help to solve grey squirrel problem but will cause a lot more future problems.

The main problem is modern people esp urban rally don't like killing anything.

Its a bit like the old woman who swallowed the fly, next a spider.... trapping and shooting are the only real world answers. Round my way we are polluted with greys to the point that only last week I bought a trap. The local squirrell group used to trap hundreds in the local ancient woodlands and it made almost no difference, or so we thought, till they stopped and now the little bastards are everywhere.

Once you clear them out of one area you need to move out to the surrounding areas or they will be back colonising the area you cleared before you have blinked ! 

[drinksloe]

Must admit I don't understand why they banned poison for Grey's, esp in areas with no reds.

If it's good enough for rats can't see any other way to control them at landscape level.

Tapping is just too labour intensive, althou here is those new traps from NZ nuartra? Can't mind the name but it's basically a tiny bolt gun powered by a gas canister that resets itself, put a bait in a small chamber squirrel sticks its head in and bolt fires killing it and resets as squirrel falls dead to ground leaving trap free for next.

Really quite clever.

 

They are working on contraceptives too, I thought a stupid idea but possibly not as stupid as I 1st thought.

But just an excuse so the bunny huggers don't have to kill anything, or have blood on there conscion.

Would off been far better to spend the money on developing the contraceptive on just killing the bloody things

 

 

I actually think sadly in my lifetime I'll see reds go extinct in mainland UK/Scotland.

At moment the only saving grace is the Scottish central belt population of Grey's tends not too carry squirrel pox, which the English 1s do.

South of Scotland's reds are just hanging on by a finger tip.

If they start carrying it theyll quickly spread throu some real red strong holds, 

[roys]

Saw my first red squirrel in 56 years in Central Scotland just before Christmas, had to rub my eyes couldn’t believe it.

We have a nice wee group of reds at our feeder in Stranraer, but my neighbour told me last week that they saw a grey so today I was zeroing in my air rifle for it in preparation.

[openspaceman]

17 hours ago, drinksloe said:

Must admit I don't understand why they banned poison for Grey's,

 

They didn't so much ban it but more the producers didn't re license it because sales were so low. Also it was being badly misused for squirrel. The approved method was to place the hoppers at greater than 50?? metre spacings, pre bait with maize and then fill the hoppers with warfarin covered wheat , refilling frequently and stopping by end June. This was to ensure squirrels were taking the bait and then giving a good chance they would eat their body weight over a short period to get an outright kill. What was happening was people were leaving hoppers out over long, not re filling them and having them too close together. This latter was having a seriously bad effect on other small rodents that normally only forage over smaller distances, hence knocking out meta populations rather than the odd individual.

 

The idea was to control excess males at the danger period for bark stripping.

Quote

Tapping is just too labour intensive, althou here is those new traps from NZ nuartra?

Kania trap is the spring trap fixed on a tree, I didn't know the gas operated thing was cleared for squirrel in UK. I used Fenn Mk 4 in tunnels but over 45 years ago now.

Quote

 

 

They are working on contraceptives too, I thought a stupid idea but possibly not as stupid as I 1st thought.

 

It's taken all that time for the contraceptive to be approved, if it is the same one being researched all those years ago  it worked quite differently from human contraceptives as it made the females immune system  attack the sperm, normally sperm have the means to suppress an immune response.

 

I've only seen reds in the Lake district, never in Scotland but I haven't been back there for 10 years now. In the nineteen twenties my mother fed reds on the kitchen table in Bookham.

Edited April 21, 2021 by openspaceman
Added a century for disambiguity